A smile for Vinnie.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:32 pm

Enjoy the suck.

[youtube][/youtube]

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:16 pm

Got one minute in then had to stop! That is a real problem he's got there! Baaaaaaaaaaaaaad!

Singer's cymbals looked nice though!

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:23 pm

shramiac wrote:
Singer's cymbals looked nice though!

Singer's cymbals should be center stage and higher in the mix than Paul's ... ...um... ...vocals.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:38 pm

Ugh. Time for Paul to call it a day I'm afraid... start scouting out for that long planned New KISS:

wolfgang161272 · Post by **wolfgang161272** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:59 pm

I don't wanna hear it...It's time to end with this voice Paul...
Not against you but this is not good for the band

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:20 pm

This is just godawful.I have a feeling Paul won't retire if he's willing to go up onstage sounding like this. He either needs to call it a day or take advantage of having three other singers in the band if he continues to tour. Add more Gene tunes and sprinkle in more songs for Eric and Tommy to sing.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:05 pm

He should have rested his voice .. pretty sad. He couldnt sing or move. He should just sing one or too a night.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:13 pm

His voice was fine 2 weeks ago on kiss cruise. Opened with psycho circus

[youtube][/youtube]

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:54 am

Dino, He sucked LESS there. He still sucked though.

Iceman75 · Post by **Iceman75** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:50 am

He knows his voice is shot here.

Post by **Streetbeat** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:42 am

his voice was better in chile , didn't go to see them but saw the videos

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:27 am

Maybe he had cold.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:43 am

doublev2 wrote:Maybe he had cold.

Maybe his throat took a severe pummeling?

jesternjeff · Post by **jesternjeff** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:05 am

Its clear he has just lost his voice here, why are so many of you so hard on him. As an entertainer I can tell you, one doesnt loose there voice from the sounds projected, you loose it from repeating the same words over and over again. This is a result from singing the same songs night after night, this happens and the show must go on ! It happened to him in the 70's , 80's ,90 and its something thats just going to happen to this day. I will agree that they shouldnt be working so hard and I hate to say it, its not cuz they love to do it ... if that were true they would put more care into it w/ rests in between shows. Its all about greed for Gene & Paul.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:28 am

Jeff, You just answered the question of why we are so hard on him.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:31 am

We are constantly told by G&P that KISS delivers what no other band delivers. "Put up or shut up" Gene has said that 100 times. KISS tickets are incredibly expensive.
I agree that what we're hearing in that clip is fatigue, but that's because he damaged his voice and he's not as young as he once was which means his body does not heal as quickly as it once did.
KISS is doing a disservice to their own legacy by continuing to do shows when they are clearly unable to perform at even what I would consider 80% of their prime. On top of that, they do it with half scabs.

Just because you CAN do something and you have the RIGHT to do something doesn't mean that you SHOULD do that thing. Paul and Gene can do and have the right to continue on doing KISS, but should they?

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:36 am

As a PROFESSIONAL, Paul should know what songs to include in that nights setlist .

As PROFESSIONALS, Kiss should be able to stray from the setlist on a moments notice if needed.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:13 am

as professionals kiss should errrr errrr umm i don''t know.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:19 am

doublev2 wrote:as professionals kiss should errrr errrr umm i don''t know.

...NOT steal babies !!!!

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:05 am

jesternjeff · Post by **jesternjeff** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:06 pm

poserboy71 wrote:Jeff, You just answered the question of why we are so hard on him.

Your right PB, I did ... no shit ! lol Thanks !

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:30 am

By the end of the Reunion Tour and the Psycho Circus Tour and the Farewell Tour, all 4 original guys were millionaires. Gene and Paul especially so. Not only had they re-established their bank accounts, but the legacy of the band. They could've quit at that point and maintained the dignity and legacy of the band.
But having tens-of-millions of dollars each in the bank meant that Gene & Paul didn't NEED to continue on with KISS. They could've each gone on with solo careers. Paul could've gone onto Broadway. Gene could've dove into his businesses.
No they CHOSE to continue KISS to add MORE millions to their already existing tens-of-millions. Will these years go down as some of their best? Their best shows? Their best albums? Their best costumes? Their best tours? No. It will be remembered as the years they toured with replacement members, played below the level they had set for themselves and sullied their legacy for just a little bit more money.

Here is how I think about it: It's a free country and KISS has the right to do something to make money, but is it morally right to do so? DC comics has the right to make Superman a homosexual black man, but is that the morally correct thing to do for a character so integral historically to the USA and the World? In a free country the Nazi Party has every right to hire Simmons/Abrahms Marketing to promote their brand and Gene could accept the job to make a huge profit, but is it morally right to do so?

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:39 am

Good points Erg but I also believe that they don't want to stop... even after all these years they're still addicted to the rush of the stage (and considering all other ventures that Gene's tried have failed). In any case the moral issue would work here too... they have every right to continue but at the same time they are tarnishing the legacy (lackluster performances, guts hangin over the spandex, new guys pretending to be the old guys, etc.)

Post by **Genebaby** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:28 am

They are totally allowed to do it, playing live badly till the end isn't immoral, these guys aren't Vinnie selling you a guitar he never played as the real one.

They are just not seeing things from the outside and there are enough sheep telling them they rock, when they should know better.

One day when they truly have finished they may realise their mistake.

Still, my daughter will get to have the Kiss experience, she won't be bothered by the problems we can see and hear, so that's cool for me.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:46 am

I dunno, Paul's voice above is pretty friggin' immoral to my ears...

Maybe moral's the wrong word... priorities perhaps? I'm just spouting off from a longtime fan point of view. Really at the end of the day, I guess life is too short to care about a legacy... do what makes u happy now cause it ain't gonna matter when you're gone (even if it does suck).

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:08 am

I understand and agree with some of the comments here but it is also a fact they that from a musical technique standpoint they are still playing extremely well. In fact Gene and Paul may be playing bass and guitar better than they ever have. Here is what I notice:

Paul's song writing and singing have slipped noticably over the last few years I'm sorry to say but Gene's hasn't. Gene's contributions are strong on Revenge, Carnival of Souls, Psycho Circus, Sonic Boom and Monster and his solo album Asshole has talented diverse playing. Eric Singer is a solid drummer and I'm becoming more neutral in regards to Tommy because as time marches on he apes Ace less and quite frankly he plays Ace's style better than Ace does I'm sorry to say. With that said Tommy doesn't play as well in my opinion as Bob Kulick, Vincent Cusano, Mark St. John or Bruce Kulick but I'm sorry folks he plays a hell of alot better than Ace Frehley so to me with the exception of his guitar playing which looks to be solid the weak link in KISS has sadly become Paul Stanley and he is the creative control point of KISS.

We all have to adapt and evolve in life or we all become obsolete as times change. It is also true that as we all age we become less comfortable with change and many of us here are either middle aged or getting close to it.

I'm sorry to say that Ace and Peter are not playing or writing well these days and though beloved icons and or celebrities still both may be musically obsolete now I'm sorry to say. Peter's solo material is total shit and though I'm aware that some of you like Anomoly and I can only acknowledge a few good songs on it. I too wish that Monster was as good as Lick it Up, Creatures or Carnival of Souls but folks it is much much much better than fucking Anomoly or alot of the shit that we are force feed from the new artists that get all the media attention. Paul needs to learn to selectively choose songs to perform live that are within his current more limited vocal range if he is going to continue to perform as a singer and perhaps Gene, Tommy and Eric should each have a bigger role in singing future Kiss Songs.

Don Dokken is another once great singer who can still sound solid on an album but has many challenges trying to sing live these days. Age and wear and tear will eventually get us all.

Like many of you I continue to consume music product until it ceases to inspire me but at this point I still get some enjoyment out of the likes of Sonic Boom and Monster.

Just my opinion boys and I respect all of yours!

Kev

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:41 am

Great points Kev, and I can say that I agree with them all.

There are a lot of people on here that really hate on the SONIC BOOM and MONSTER albums. Those albums are frustrating for sure because I think we all wish the originals were the ones still together putting out kick-ass albums, but the hard truth is that these albums have some of the best written material from KISS since LIU. (Although because of Paul's singing and producer skills, I don't think they are the best realizations of that material.)

Another point I feel I failed to make though is that KISS, like the Beatles before them, became more than a band. They became an entertainment group that made music, movies, comics, toys. The personalities of the individual members became extremely important to the public perception of the band. I would say almost nearly as important as the music itself. That is why something like LEGACY is so much more important to a band like KISS than to a lot of other bands.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:18 am

Great points and response erg2!

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:56 am

are you sure kiss are still making millions? They have huge overheads and i bet their records aren't selling too well. I am not so sure they make as much as people think.

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:37 am

doublev2 wrote:are you sure kiss are still making millions? They have huge overheads and i bet their records aren't selling too well. I am not so sure they make as much as people think.

$1500 for a 'meet and greet'. this costs them nothing. all they have to do is show up. and they sell them out. then all the shitty merch they licence out. paul and Gene don't loose out on anything. if it sells, they get an additional cut per item. if it doesn't sell,,,like those horrible acoustic washburn v guitars and those coffins,,, they don't loose a cent. don't think they are in the poor house. gene is a smart bussiness man cause he doesn't take the fall...everyone else does.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:39 pm

Yeah. I dont recall meet and greats back in the 80s. Its not interesting to meet these guys anyway.

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:11 pm

Fuck that. I will never pay to meet anyone. The likes of Paul and Gene should be KISSing my sweet ass for being a REAl Fan all these years. PAy them to meet them?,,,yer right! should be the other way around and they should be shouting me a freebie for making them Rich.

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:14 pm

doublev2 wrote: Its not interesting to meet these guys anyway.

Same here, don't want to meet them. And Vinnie if your reading his. Same goes for you, you cocksucker

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:21 pm

Feel the love

[youtube][/youtube]

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:41 am

metatron wrote:Fuck that. I will never pay to meet anyone. The likes of Paul and Gene should be KISSing my sweet ass for being a REAl Fan all these years. PAy them to meet them?,,,yer right! should be the other way around and they should be shouting me a freebie for making them Rich.

You are right for the win sir... at the end of the day though it's ultimately the person's fault paying for allowing paul and gene to get away with it.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:59 am

My guess is that Paul and Gene probably pull in $35K-$50K each per concert these days, especially with merch and the meet and greets. The scabs earn probably $10K-$20K per concert. And like Metatron said, they lose nothing on merchandising. It's all money up front and then a cut of each unit sold.

I want to say that SONIC BOOM sold a couple-hundred-thousand units total...maybe in the 300,000 range, but I don't remember exactly. I'm sure they don't really make much cold, hard cash off album releases but it's not chump change either.

I'm pulling a number out of my butt, but if they do 100 shows on the Crue co-headlining tour then they could be pulling in around $3-4 Million each for the tour.

If you look up Gene's net worth, he supposedly has $300-Million.
If you look up Paul's net worth, he supposedly has $150-Million.

My general point is, does the paltry $3-Million extra they will make really do anything on top of the money they already have? And is that "little bit more" worth the tarnished legacy to the KISS name?

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:12 am

erg2 wrote: My general point is, does the paltry $3-Million extra they will make really do anything on top of the money they already have? And is that "little bit more" worth the tarnished legacy to the KISS name?

It's a win-win for Gene and Paul cause it makes 'em look more important than they are that someone would pay to meet them and they always know some sucker will pay the money. I can guarantee Gene (more so than Paul) could give two shits about the legacy. Otherwise he'd smarten up and quit stickin' Kiss' name to every thing under the sun...

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:07 pm

PinkWiz wrote:
erg2 wrote: My general point is, does the paltry $3-Million extra they will make really do anything on top of the money they already have? And is that "little bit more" worth the tarnished legacy to the KISS name?
I can guarantee Gene (more so than Paul) could give two shits about the legacy. Otherwise he'd smarten up and quit stickin' Kiss' name to every thing under the sun...

100% ...................................................................................................... [youtube][/youtube]

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:21 am

I would never have guessed gene has that much money. I would have said 15 milion if I had to guess.
Maybe they include what kiss co is worth if sold.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:34 am

Ace is supposedly worth 30-Million and Peter is worth 3-Million.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:04 am

I can not believe ace has 30 million but maybe.