Latest post from Vinnie Vincent

[VLADIMIR]

P.R. is for Paul Runner aka Vinnie Vincent. Calling KISS an "Ugly witch" is laughable. The biggest haters I've ever seen come from the VV camp not the other way around. Without KISS no Vinnie, remember that. The guy is just insane.......& full of hate.


"The internet created a culture of hate. Hate" is the new game in town and kiss is the "group think" cult club. If one hates, they all hate or the "group" will attack you. The hate club eat their own. I see these haters everywhere now. Shitting on everyone is the new culture. Don't matter who it is. Politicians, musicians, anyone who is public.
A great % of Kiss fans are especially dangerous and toxic. My opinion, Vinnie has talent and Kiss wanted that talent. Vinnie wasn't for sale. Kiss is the ugly old witch who would kill to get the fountain of youth. Vinnie is the fountain.. and vv said no. So the 2 ugly old witches turned their cult members on vv. I get the feeling vv enjoys pissing on them and don't want their approval. It makes them hate him more. I think vv loves it. The relaunch of vvi will especially drive them into madness. I think v will have the last laugh. I remember watching that show in 2018 and the audience was crying. I never saw an artist and their music have that effect on a crowd before. That's what I mean by the fountain of youth the witch would kill for."

V.V. (posting as P.R.)

[doublev2]

Paul Runner 100 percent vinnie just like spider.

Vinnie think kiss actually think about him haha. That's the most funny thing.

And yes he is the biggest hate spreader I have ever known from a so called professional musician.

For someone who hasn't put out an album for 35 years and hasn't recorded a song that was written after 1990 33 years ago how could he think kiss are jealous vampires .. and don't forget before kiss he was a low demand session player who wrote on a happy days spin off . That's not someone who would make kiss into vultures haha. And lots of people say vinnie vincent invasion wouldn't have happened without Dana Strum.

This is pretty insane. Vinnie is only use to most people as entertainment non related to his non existstant music.

If he had new music he wouldn't be replacing robert Fleischmann msuic with a wanna be auto tune amateur karaoke singer

[VLADIMIR]

Doublev2 I agree with everything you are saying, now he wants an avatar hahaha. Not sure insulting Kiss & their fans is the way to get one ! Ooooops KISS doesn't think about hi m at all. No they are not pissed by a 50 cents millionaire & certainly don't want his fountain of youth hahaha

[drmoorejr]

Doublev2 I agree with everything you are saying, now he wants an avatar hahaha. Not sure insulting Kiss & their fans is the way to get one ! Ooooops KISS doesn't think about hi m at all. No they are not pissed by a 50 cents millionaire & certainly don't want his fountain of youth hahaha

Vinnie had gigs before KISS. Being in KISS made people aware of him, but without KISS he would have still done something, well at least until he decided to take a nose dive as he did. Vinnie had and I believe still has talent, its his own doing and lack of motivation to work for anything now days is the cause.

[Genebaby]

Without KISS he COULD have done something, maybe, but we will never know as he joined KISS. But he did join as a relative unknown. He had played with Winter and Hartman and done Treasure but none of those things had created a buzz about him, nobody knew who he was, just another musician trying to make it. KISS put him on the map, that's for sure, and Dana was intstrumental in getting the Invasion to where it got to. He'd had had more success if there wasn't a Vinnie in the band holdhing him back, and guess what happened with Slaughter? Oh yeah, that success happened.

Back to the post from Vinnie. That is pretty bad. He's just like he was when he post here and on the old forum 13 years ago, nothing has changed.

Paul Runner (Vinnie, has also stated recently that the music will be out late 2024! Then it will be late 2025, and so on. It never ends. We will never get it. There is nothing Vinnie has that anybody, let alone Paul and Gene, need to be jelous of. Just a petty old man thing that feeds on others.

[VLADIMIR]

Without KISS he COULD have done something, maybe, but we will never know as he joined KISS. But he did join as a relative unknown. He had played with Winter and Hartman and done Treasure but none of those things had created a buzz about him, nobody knew who he was, just another musician trying to make it. KISS put him on the map, that's for sure, and Dana was intstrumental in getting the Invasion to where it got to. He'd had had more success if there wasn't a Vinnie in the band holdhing him back, and guess what happened with Slaughter? Oh yeah, that success happened.

Back to the post from Vinnie. That is pretty bad. He's just like he was when he post here and on the old forum 13 years ago, nothing has changed.

Paul Runner (Vinnie, has also stated recently that the music will be out late 2024! Then it will be late 2025, and so on. It never ends. We will never get it. There is nothing Vinnie has that anybody, let alone Paul and Gene, need to be jelous of. Just a petty old man thing that feeds on others.

Very well said Genebaby. Now VV is whining because he wants an avatar. I think if someone deserves an avatar apart from the original 4, it should be Eric Carr. Bruce Kulick too, but he wasn't in the band during the makeup era. Just my 2 cents.

[Luxor]

Very well said Genebaby. Now VV is whining because he wants an avatar. I think if someone deserves an avatar apart from the original 4, it should be Eric Carr. Bruce Kulick too, but he wasn't in the band during the makeup era. Just my 2 cents.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Eric Carr didn't bring anything to the band. Eric was around for many of the worst KISS album releases. Eric also lacked actual songwriting ability.

Bruce Kulick even brought less to the band. Either one of them could easily be replaced, like they were.

Without Vinnie, who knows if KISS would have survived past 1983.

[Luxor]

KISS put him on the map, that's for sure, and Dana was intstrumental in getting the Invasion to where it got to. He'd had had more success if there wasn't a Vinnie in the band holdhing him back, and guess what happened with Slaughter? Oh yeah, that success happened.

That's so false. Vinnie put KISS back on the map. Kiss was finished when he joined. Anyone who is honest will admit, Vinnie saved KISS.

and look at the horrible downall with KISS between LIU and Revenge. And does anyone think Revenge would have sounded anything like that had Vinnie not been around for almost a year with them? And look at everything since then. Kiss hasn't put out any new music worth anything since Revenge.

as far as Dana, he was nothing before Vinnie. Also, most Vinnie fans would agree the stuff recorded before Dana was around was better.

Its a shame the stuff pre-Robert wasn't what got released.

And look at the crap job Dana did on ASG. That's how Dana really screwed the band. Dana wasnt around for Guitarmageddon. That sounds superior to ASG.

It was also Dana's idea for that "glam" look that hurt them tremendously.

We also know from postings from Billboard on the people at Chrysalis when Slaughter "Broke" that was because of VVI.

Slaughter soon flamed out with their follow up from the Vinnie pushed cd as the "Wild Life" only sold round 22% of what "Stick It To Ya" sold.

and if people want to find out more about Dana ripping off bands and other things, not to mention screwing over Blas Elias etc theres a wonderful interview with a Slaughter insider on Metal Sludge


Lets admit, the KISS avatars look horrendous. Cheap garbage. Also, the MSG shows were such a major disappointment.

[Luxor]

Doublev2 I agree with everything you are saying, now he wants an avatar hahaha. Not sure insulting Kiss & their fans is the way to get one ! Ooooops KISS doesn't think about hi m at all. No they are not pissed by a 50 cents millionaire & certainly don't want his fountain of youth hahaha

I bet they think of him everytime they play "I Love It Loud" and "Lick It Up"

Hell, what was the 2nd studio album box sete ... Vinnie's "Creatures"

[Luxor]

Vinnie had gigs before KISS. Being in KISS made people aware of him, but without KISS he would have still done something, well at least until he decided to take a nose dive as he did. Vinnie had and I believe still has talent, its his own doing and lack of motivation to work for anything now days is the cause.

Vinnie probably would have been far better off had he never joined KISS. The music Vinnie did for Warrior was great. That band really could have gone places.

And without Vinnie, KISS would have probably been over by 1983 or 1984.

[Genebaby]

KISS or no KISS, Vinnie had quite the opportunities and he squandered them all to fade into oblivian. KISS were slowly headed there sure enough, leading to the reunion having to happen to save their career, but Vinnie dived into the black hole of musical nothingness, he didn't slowly walk in.

[doublev2]

We know what vinnie would have done . It was Warriror and that demo album isn't great is it?

No way warrior would have been big. No charisma , no pretty boys in the band .. no hits . No.chance

Revenge sold like shit just like creatures . I don't like any of that album to be honest. Gene said vv'S contribution to unholy was more the lyrics as based off a wicked lester song .

Lick it up tour wasn't that big either for the first tour with no make up.

I am not saying vinnie didn't help Kiss as he did but not a chance did he save them lol. And plenty of people as good or better could have come in.

Kiss biggest selling albums of the 80s came after vinnie left. I love it loud wasnt a hit . Vinnie only co wrote one third of creatures of the night and played three or four guitar solos .. there are plenty of people who would have been.good in Kiss. Are you saying eddie van Halen wouldn't have been better? Lol

Vinnie was a session musican. Yes lick it up is more vinnie but only the song lick it up which is a non song musically did anything . Vinnie didn't even have the best guitar solo on that album. Also virtually no one knew vinnie was in Kiss. It's not like now where you can check online. Also hardly any kiss fans as we kmow today. Most fans wouldnt have been able to name more than 4 album titles back then
I was one of the few who studied them. As crazy as this sounds but from 1983 to about 1989 i would have been one of a handful that knew all the albums in what order. You had to luterally habg out in record stores looking at dates on backof album and most stores would only have 5 or 6 kiss albums so you had to figure out over time or get gold mine and still confusing .....I went to Kiss show in 1983 and 95 percent of them no idea the name of lead guitar player or drummer.

KISS put him on the map, that's for sure, and Dana was intstrumental in getting the Invasion to where it got to. He'd had had more success if there wasn't a Vinnie in the band holdhing him back, and guess what happened with Slaughter? Oh yeah, that success happened.

That's so false. Vinnie put KISS back on the map. Kiss was finished when he joined. Anyone who is honest will admit, Vinnie saved KISS.

and look at the horrible downall with KISS between LIU and Revenge. And does anyone think Revenge would have sounded anything like that had Vinnie not been around for almost a year with them? And look at everything since then. Kiss hasn't put out any new music worth anything since Revenge.

as far as Dana, he was nothing before Vinnie. Also, most Vinnie fans would agree the stuff recorded before Dana was around was better.

Its a shame the stuff pre-Robert wasn't what got released.

And look at the crap job Dana did on ASG. That's how Dana really screwed the band. Dana wasnt around for Guitarmageddon. That sounds superior to ASG.

It was also Dana's idea for that "glam" look that hurt them tremendously.

We also know from postings from Billboard on the people at Chrysalis when Slaughter "Broke" that was because of VVI.

Slaughter soon flamed out with their follow up from the Vinnie pushed cd as the "Wild Life" only sold round 22% of what "Stick It To Ya" sold.

and if people want to find out more about Dana ripping off bands and other things, not to mention screwing over Blas Elias etc theres a wonderful interview with a Slaughter insider on Metal Sludge


Lets admit, the KISS avatars look horrendous. Cheap garbage. Also, the MSG shows were such a major disappointment.

[Luxor]

We know what vinnie would have done . It was Warriror and that demo album isn't great is it?

No way warrior would have been big. No charisma , no pretty boys in the band .. no hits . No.chance

Revenge sold like shit just like creatures . I don't like any of that album to be honest. Gene said vv'S contribution to unholy was more the lyrics as based off a wicked lester song .

Lick it up tour wasn't that big either for the first tour with no make up.

I am not saying vinnie didn't help Kiss as he did but not a chance did he save them lol. And plenty of people as good or better could have come in.

Kiss biggest selling albums of the 80s came after vinnie left. I love it loud wasnt a hit . Vinnie only co wrote one third of creatures of the night and played three or four guitar solos .. there are plenty of people who would have been.good in Kiss. Are you saying eddie van Halen wouldn't have been better? Lol

Vinnie was a session musican. Yes lick it up is more vinnie but only the song lick it up which is a non song musically did anything . Vinnie didn't even have the best guitar solo on that album. Also virtually no one knew vinnie was in Kiss. It's not like now where you can check online. Also hardly any kiss fans as we kmow today. Most fans wouldnt have been able to name more than 4 album titles back then
I was one of the few who studied them. As crazy as this sounds but from 1983 to about 1989 i would have been one of a handful that knew all the albums in what order. You had to luterally habg out in record stores looking at dates on backof album and most stores would only have 5 or 6 kiss albums so you had to figure out over time or get gold mine and still confusing .....I went to Kiss show in 1983 and 95 percent of them no idea the name of lead guitar player or drummer.

I see the king of disinformation is back.

Lets start with the huge falsehood of Revenge. Its KISS best seller WW since STH. Its sold more than Hot In The Shde in the US . Granted, I know some peope who have zero experience in the industry use the "soundscan" figure and they leave off another 250,000 in sales. WW its not even a contest. Revenge blows HITS way. Also, at the time, bands like Slaughter, Winger, Cinderalla, Faster Pussycat and other saw their sales plumet 70% or more. But KISS sold more.

How many times does Kiss themselves mention COTN or Revenge?

Also, isnt it odd how Vinnie haters try and downplay Vinnie's work on COTN?
The two lead off singles were his songs - I Love It Loud and Kiler

They recorded 6 of his songs for the album
I Love It Loud
Killer
I Still Love You
Betrayed
Back On The Streets
Not For The Innocent

Just imagine how great COTN could have been if it had been truly the VV Creatures?

Lick It Up returned KISS to platinum glory and its over 2M in sales US. It was already at 1M in sales prior to the release of Animalize but not certified because Vinnie was going after them for unpaid royalties.

Look at KISS' crap output after LIU? Those albums are average to mediocre at best. That's why after the failure of HITS, they had to return to Vinnie.

Eddie Van Halen was never up for KISS. That's a $immons lie.

Also, we know why Gene was begging Vinnie to return for Animalize, he knew the stuff they had sucked.

KISS blew all the momentum they had with Animalize being so average. Look at what happened with their next album, Sales plunge. Animalize was platinum right after the 90 day window. It shipped platinum. All Asylum could do is ship gold.

i wont even get into the nonsense about someones "alleged" HS memories because those have been destroyed so easily. Like the laughaable claim that Invasion videos never got played on MTV and how someone didn't even know what "rotation" meant or the categories of it.

Other KISS guitar players. Mark didn't add anything and he couldn't write songs. Same for Bruce or Tommy. They were all very average. Eric Carr wasn't a writer either. Neither was Singer. And none of them had the balls to stand up to Gene and Paul.

Desmond Child certainly couldn't "save" KISS. He's all over some of their worst albums. Gene banned him prior to Revenge and that's when Vinnie was brought back in.


Its also easy for some not in the business to shit on Creatures initial sales. They ignore KISS downward trajectory. The plummeting sales from Dynasty ...plunging terribly for Unmasked and then hitting rock bottom for "The Elder" with only 150K. So some want to trash COTN which saw a big increase to 250K initially.

They carried on that momentum. LIU did over 250K its first week.

Had KISS handled COTN release differently, it could have sold vastly more. Needed at least 2-3 videos. Never should have had Ace "pretend". They should have played up the all new metal KISS. They ditched the KISS that was in the grave.

I Love It Loud and Lick It Up are two of KISS biggest songs ever. #7 & #8 all time live

Screenshot 2023-12-10 at 11-41-23 KISS Tour Statistics setlist.fm.png (70.09 KiB) Viewed 9839 times

He sure saved Kiss

[Genebaby]

The long and short of LIU, is that, as great as the album is, it was the unmasking that saved KISS. Another make-up album would have tanked them into the ground, and they knew it. Decent songs (great ones actually) and a fresh new look for the 80's is what saved KISS, regardless of who was in the band. Nobody knew much about Eric let alone Vinnie, he was a small blip on the radar cause he wasn't Ace.

[doublev2]

I was made for lovin you is number one kiss on sporify.

We know what vinnie would have done . It was Warriror and that demo album isn't great is it?

No way warrior would have been big. No charisma , no pretty boys in the band .. no hits . No.chance

Revenge sold like shit just like creatures . I don't like any of that album to be honest. Gene said vv'S contribution to unholy was more the lyrics as based off a wicked lester song .

Lick it up tour wasn't that big either for the first tour with no make up.

I am not saying vinnie didn't help Kiss as he did but not a chance did he save them lol. And plenty of people as good or better could have come in.

Kiss biggest selling albums of the 80s came after vinnie left. I love it loud wasnt a hit . Vinnie only co wrote one third of creatures of the night and played three or four guitar solos .. there are plenty of people who would have been.good in Kiss. Are you saying eddie van Halen wouldn't have been better? Lol

Vinnie was a session musican. Yes lick it up is more vinnie but only the song lick it up which is a non song musically did anything . Vinnie didn't even have the best guitar solo on that album. Also virtually no one knew vinnie was in Kiss. It's not like now where you can check online. Also hardly any kiss fans as we kmow today. Most fans wouldnt have been able to name more than 4 album titles back then
I was one of the few who studied them. As crazy as this sounds but from 1983 to about 1989 i would have been one of a handful that knew all the albums in what order. You had to luterally habg out in record stores looking at dates on backof album and most stores would only have 5 or 6 kiss albums so you had to figure out over time or get gold mine and still confusing .....I went to Kiss show in 1983 and 95 percent of them no idea the name of lead guitar player or drummer.

I see the king of disinformation is back.

Lets start with the huge falsehood of Revenge. Its KISS best seller WW since STH. Its sold more than Hot In The Shde in the US . Granted, I know some peope who have zero experience in the industry use the "soundscan" figure and they leave off another 250,000 in sales. WW its not even a contest. Revenge blows HITS way. Also, at the time, bands like Slaughter, Winger, Cinderalla, Faster Pussycat and other saw their sales plumet 70% or more. But KISS sold more.

How many times does Kiss themselves mention COTN or Revenge?

Also, isnt it odd how Vinnie haters try and downplay Vinnie's work on COTN?
The two lead off singles were his songs - I Love It Loud and Kiler

They recorded 6 of his songs for the album
I Love It Loud
Killer
I Still Love You
Betrayed
Back On The Streets
Not For The Innocent

Just imagine how great COTN could have been if it had been truly the VV Creatures?

Lick It Up returned KISS to platinum glory and its over 2M in sales US. It was already at 1M in sales prior to the release of Animalize but not certified because Vinnie was going after them for unpaid royalties.

Look at KISS' crap output after LIU? Those albums are average to mediocre at best. That's why after the failure of HITS, they had to return to Vinnie.

Eddie Van Halen was never up for KISS. That's a $immons lie.

Also, we know why Gene was begging Vinnie to return for Animalize, he knew the stuff they had sucked.

KISS blew all the momentum they had with Animalize being so average. Look at what happened with their next album, Sales plunge. Animalize was platinum right after the 90 day window. It shipped platinum. All Asylum could do is ship gold.

i wont even get into the nonsense about someones "alleged" HS memories because those have been destroyed so easily. Like the laughaable claim that Invasion videos never got played on MTV and how someone didn't even know what "rotation" meant or the categories of it.

Other KISS guitar players. Mark didn't add anything and he couldn't write songs. Same for Bruce or Tommy. They were all very average. Eric Carr wasn't a writer either. Neither was Singer. And none of them had the balls to stand up to Gene and Paul.

Desmond Child certainly couldn't "save" KISS. He's all over some of their worst albums. Gene banned him prior to Revenge and that's when Vinnie was brought back in.


Its also easy for some not in the business to shit on Creatures initial sales. They ignore KISS downward trajectory. The plummeting sales from Dynasty ...plunging terribly for Unmasked and then hitting rock bottom for "The Elder" with only 150K. So some want to trash COTN which saw a big increase to 250K initially.

They carried on that momentum. LIU did over 250K its first week.

Had KISS handled COTN release differently, it could have sold vastly more. Needed at least 2-3 videos. Never should have had Ace "pretend". They should have played up the all new metal KISS. They ditched the KISS that was in the grave.

I Love It Loud and Lick It Up are two of KISS biggest songs ever. #7 & #8 all time live
Screenshot 2023-12-10 at 11-41-23 KISS Tour Statistics setlist.fm.png

He sure saved Kiss

[doublev2]

Isn't black diamond the only song that has been played at every Kiss concert ? I know the didn't place deuce for a while and no strutter on end of the road ?
Not sure.

We know what vinnie would have done . It was Warriror and that demo album isn't great is it?

No way warrior would have been big. No charisma , no pretty boys in the band .. no hits . No.chance

Revenge sold like shit just like creatures . I don't like any of that album to be honest. Gene said vv'S contribution to unholy was more the lyrics as based off a wicked lester song .

Lick it up tour wasn't that big either for the first tour with no make up.

I am not saying vinnie didn't help Kiss as he did but not a chance did he save them lol. And plenty of people as good or better could have come in.

Kiss biggest selling albums of the 80s came after vinnie left. I love it loud wasnt a hit . Vinnie only co wrote one third of creatures of the night and played three or four guitar solos .. there are plenty of people who would have been.good in Kiss. Are you saying eddie van Halen wouldn't have been better? Lol

Vinnie was a session musican. Yes lick it up is more vinnie but only the song lick it up which is a non song musically did anything . Vinnie didn't even have the best guitar solo on that album. Also virtually no one knew vinnie was in Kiss. It's not like now where you can check online. Also hardly any kiss fans as we kmow today. Most fans wouldnt have been able to name more than 4 album titles back then
I was one of the few who studied them. As crazy as this sounds but from 1983 to about 1989 i would have been one of a handful that knew all the albums in what order. You had to luterally habg out in record stores looking at dates on backof album and most stores would only have 5 or 6 kiss albums so you had to figure out over time or get gold mine and still confusing .....I went to Kiss show in 1983 and 95 percent of them no idea the name of lead guitar player or drummer.

I see the king of disinformation is back.

Lets start with the huge falsehood of Revenge. Its KISS best seller WW since STH. Its sold more than Hot In The Shde in the US . Granted, I know some peope who have zero experience in the industry use the "soundscan" figure and they leave off another 250,000 in sales. WW its not even a contest. Revenge blows HITS way. Also, at the time, bands like Slaughter, Winger, Cinderalla, Faster Pussycat and other saw their sales plumet 70% or more. But KISS sold more.

How many times does Kiss themselves mention COTN or Revenge?

Also, isnt it odd how Vinnie haters try and downplay Vinnie's work on COTN?
The two lead off singles were his songs - I Love It Loud and Kiler

They recorded 6 of his songs for the album
I Love It Loud
Killer
I Still Love You
Betrayed
Back On The Streets
Not For The Innocent

Just imagine how great COTN could have been if it had been truly the VV Creatures?

Lick It Up returned KISS to platinum glory and its over 2M in sales US. It was already at 1M in sales prior to the release of Animalize but not certified because Vinnie was going after them for unpaid royalties.

Look at KISS' crap output after LIU? Those albums are average to mediocre at best. That's why after the failure of HITS, they had to return to Vinnie.

Eddie Van Halen was never up for KISS. That's a $immons lie.

Also, we know why Gene was begging Vinnie to return for Animalize, he knew the stuff they had sucked.

KISS blew all the momentum they had with Animalize being so average. Look at what happened with their next album, Sales plunge. Animalize was platinum right after the 90 day window. It shipped platinum. All Asylum could do is ship gold.

i wont even get into the nonsense about someones "alleged" HS memories because those have been destroyed so easily. Like the laughaable claim that Invasion videos never got played on MTV and how someone didn't even know what "rotation" meant or the categories of it.

Other KISS guitar players. Mark didn't add anything and he couldn't write songs. Same for Bruce or Tommy. They were all very average. Eric Carr wasn't a writer either. Neither was Singer. And none of them had the balls to stand up to Gene and Paul.

Desmond Child certainly couldn't "save" KISS. He's all over some of their worst albums. Gene banned him prior to Revenge and that's when Vinnie was brought back in.


Its also easy for some not in the business to shit on Creatures initial sales. They ignore KISS downward trajectory. The plummeting sales from Dynasty ...plunging terribly for Unmasked and then hitting rock bottom for "The Elder" with only 150K. So some want to trash COTN which saw a big increase to 250K initially.

They carried on that momentum. LIU did over 250K its first week.

Had KISS handled COTN release differently, it could have sold vastly more. Needed at least 2-3 videos. Never should have had Ace "pretend". They should have played up the all new metal KISS. They ditched the KISS that was in the grave.

I Love It Loud and Lick It Up are two of KISS biggest songs ever. #7 & #8 all time live
Screenshot 2023-12-10 at 11-41-23 KISS Tour Statistics setlist.fm.png

He sure saved Kiss

[doublev2]

Kiss don't handle their releases
.their abel does . Just as much as a producer and engineer are in charge of the sound of creatures of.the night not a sesssion guitar player

We know what vinnie would have done . It was Warriror and that demo album isn't great is it?

No way warrior would have been big. No charisma , no pretty boys in the band .. no hits . No.chance

Revenge sold like shit just like creatures . I don't like any of that album to be honest. Gene said vv'S contribution to unholy was more the lyrics as based off a wicked lester song .

Lick it up tour wasn't that big either for the first tour with no make up.

I am not saying vinnie didn't help Kiss as he did but not a chance did he save them lol. And plenty of people as good or better could have come in.

Kiss biggest selling albums of the 80s came after vinnie left. I love it loud wasnt a hit . Vinnie only co wrote one third of creatures of the night and played three or four guitar solos .. there are plenty of people who would have been.good in Kiss. Are you saying eddie van Halen wouldn't have been better? Lol

Vinnie was a session musican. Yes lick it up is more vinnie but only the song lick it up which is a non song musically did anything . Vinnie didn't even have the best guitar solo on that album. Also virtually no one knew vinnie was in Kiss. It's not like now where you can check online. Also hardly any kiss fans as we kmow today. Most fans wouldnt have been able to name more than 4 album titles back then
I was one of the few who studied them. As crazy as this sounds but from 1983 to about 1989 i would have been one of a handful that knew all the albums in what order. You had to luterally habg out in record stores looking at dates on backof album and most stores would only have 5 or 6 kiss albums so you had to figure out over time or get gold mine and still confusing .....I went to Kiss show in 1983 and 95 percent of them no idea the name of lead guitar player or drummer.

I see the king of disinformation is back.

Lets start with the huge falsehood of Revenge. Its KISS best seller WW since STH. Its sold more than Hot In The Shde in the US . Granted, I know some peope who have zero experience in the industry use the "soundscan" figure and they leave off another 250,000 in sales. WW its not even a contest. Revenge blows HITS way. Also, at the time, bands like Slaughter, Winger, Cinderalla, Faster Pussycat and other saw their sales plumet 70% or more. But KISS sold more.

How many times does Kiss themselves mention COTN or Revenge?

Also, isnt it odd how Vinnie haters try and downplay Vinnie's work on COTN?
The two lead off singles were his songs - I Love It Loud and Kiler

They recorded 6 of his songs for the album
I Love It Loud
Killer
I Still Love You
Betrayed
Back On The Streets
Not For The Innocent

Just imagine how great COTN could have been if it had been truly the VV Creatures?

Lick It Up returned KISS to platinum glory and its over 2M in sales US. It was already at 1M in sales prior to the release of Animalize but not certified because Vinnie was going after them for unpaid royalties.

Look at KISS' crap output after LIU? Those albums are average to mediocre at best. That's why after the failure of HITS, they had to return to Vinnie.

Eddie Van Halen was never up for KISS. That's a $immons lie.

Also, we know why Gene was begging Vinnie to return for Animalize, he knew the stuff they had sucked.

KISS blew all the momentum they had with Animalize being so average. Look at what happened with their next album, Sales plunge. Animalize was platinum right after the 90 day window. It shipped platinum. All Asylum could do is ship gold.

i wont even get into the nonsense about someones "alleged" HS memories because those have been destroyed so easily. Like the laughaable claim that Invasion videos never got played on MTV and how someone didn't even know what "rotation" meant or the categories of it.

Other KISS guitar players. Mark didn't add anything and he couldn't write songs. Same for Bruce or Tommy. They were all very average. Eric Carr wasn't a writer either. Neither was Singer. And none of them had the balls to stand up to Gene and Paul.

Desmond Child certainly couldn't "save" KISS. He's all over some of their worst albums. Gene banned him prior to Revenge and that's when Vinnie was brought back in.


Its also easy for some not in the business to shit on Creatures initial sales. They ignore KISS downward trajectory. The plummeting sales from Dynasty ...plunging terribly for Unmasked and then hitting rock bottom for "The Elder" with only 150K. So some want to trash COTN which saw a big increase to 250K initially.

They carried on that momentum. LIU did over 250K its first week.

Had KISS handled COTN release differently, it could have sold vastly more. Needed at least 2-3 videos. Never should have had Ace "pretend". They should have played up the all new metal KISS. They ditched the KISS that was in the grave.

I Love It Loud and Lick It Up are two of KISS biggest songs ever. #7 & #8 all time live
Screenshot 2023-12-10 at 11-41-23 KISS Tour Statistics setlist.fm.png

He sure saved Kiss

[birnie]

I Love It Loud and Lick It Up are two of KISS biggest songs ever. #7 & #8 all time live
Screenshot 2023-12-10 at 11-41-23 KISS Tour Statistics setlist.fm.png

He sure saved Kiss

That's some interesting stats
Can you show me where that comes from please?
I would think Made for Loving you is there number 1 aswell, most well known for sure.

[birnie]

Sorry, you meant live..gotcha

[drmoorejr]

Vinnie had gigs before KISS. Being in KISS made people aware of him, but without KISS he would have still done something, well at least until he decided to take a nose dive as he did. Vinnie had and I believe still has talent, its his own doing and lack of motivation to work for anything now days is the cause.

Vinnie probably would have been far better off had he never joined KISS. The music Vinnie did for Warrior was great. That band really could have gone places.

And without Vinnie, KISS would have probably been over by 1983 or 1984.

Vinnie would have been far better off if he just concentrated on the things he loved (music), instead of the other stuff he's been doing. My least favorite times at S.I.R. were when he talked about KISS. I wanted him to talk about his songs and the stories behind them.

[Genebaby]

Vinnie today is a lost cause. The talk at Atlanta was just that, talk. The new music is more talk, the release always being pushed forward, extended, it's just not funny anymore.

[VLADIMIR]

No comments........

[Genebaby]

Wow, nice post Vinnie.....

[Luxor]

I was made for lovin you is number one kiss on sporify.

The song that helped put Kiss in the grave. Bravo I guess thats why Kiss avoided for so long and then after so many failed Desmond Child KISS albums, Desmond was BANNED and they had to go back to Vinnie.

I'm sure Hori Pro etc love the miniscule amounts Spotify pays out

[Luxor]

Sorry, you meant live..gotcha

It was always a shame, "A Million To One" didnt replace "I Still Love You" during the LIU tour. One of their strongest songs ever IMO


https://www.setlist.fm/stats/paul-stanl ... ur=3d76973

A Million To One, Lick It Up, I Still Love You.

NO: Heavens On Fire, Forever & IWM4LY only 9 times

[Luxor]

The long and short of LIU, is that, as great as the album is, it was the unmasking that saved KISS. Another make-up album would have tanked them into the ground, and they knew it. Decent songs (great ones actually) and a fresh new look for the 80's is what saved KISS, regardless of who was in the band. Nobody knew much about Eric let alone Vinnie, he was a small blip on the radar cause he wasn't Ace.

That's not accurate at all. Had LIU been very weak, it would have been over. It you are going to DROP TROU (Unmask), you'd better be a BSD with the material.

Had their music been like Gene's "tiny" member (as see in Aussie sex tape) it would have been over.

It was the MUSIC that saved them.

And Ace meant nothing then. COTN would have done better without Ace. He could't get a record deal or anything. Ace promoting COTN hurt the album.

I dont know Australia, but Vinnie huge in US. Bobby even told the story of driving to LA (in the middle of nowhere). He told gas station attendet he was auditioning for Vinnie and he said, "The Guy From KISS?"

[Genebaby]

Of course it's great that the album was very decent, but Creatures was also great but was a flop in all respects due to the makeup. KISS knew they had to drop it at that point. They should have dropped it for Creatures but were too scared. Creatues being a great album and nobody taking notice made them realise it was now or never. Animalize was successful, people liked the songs and the new look KISS. The unmasking saved them as they discovered people listened with their eyes.

[doublev2]

I was Made for lovin you wasnt a big hit at the time m it became bigger since the internet . They dropped it for all tours until I think hot in the shade and it was a surprise inclusion that most of the audience's wouldn't have know . I saw that tour 5 times and no one singing along apart from the old kiss fans which in that tour were drowned out by the Mtv top 40 guys there for forever, hide your heart which were big on MTV and probably more so winger and slaughter in support who were getting more mtv play that kiss

I was made for lovin you is number one kiss on sporify.

The song that helped put Kiss in the grave. Bravo I guess thats why Kiss avoided for so long and then after so many failed Desmond Child KISS albums, Desmond was BANNED and they had to go back to Vinnie.

I'm sure Hori Pro etc love the miniscule amounts Spotify pays out

[doublev2]

This is 100 percent Vinnie . Have proof . Was connected to his official YouTube that was announcing his guitar at namm years ago .

No comments........

[VLADIMIR]

This is 100 percent Vinnie . Have proof . Was connected to his official YouTube that was announcing his guitar at namm years ago .

No comments........

Here is another one of his latest post, I wonder how this guy still has 1 fan left.......

[Genebaby]

An momentous occasion, never to be repeated? I hope that's not correct and Vinnie will never play again after this event!!

Vinnie is a known hater of YouTube. You won't see him posting anything there for people to enjoy, for FREE!!!!!!

Actually, what Vinnie wants is an Onlyfans, that's more to his liking. I wonder if anyone has suggested it to him?

What would he charge though? I don't know how it works, but he tried to charge a $500 per year subscription fee to a forum he was not even paying anything to run. Of course he got no subscribers to this lovely forum, but he tried it on! You weren't gonna get your Vinnie for free!!

[pullitt]

Maybe he is on only fans already? But would someone out him without outing himself?

[Genebaby]

I thought Vinnie was already outed? Or was that something else? LoL

The Onlyfans business model Is right up Vinnie's alley, so to speak....

[doublev2]

Vinnie is pretending to be Paul runner 100 percent which makes him a pathological liar of the highest order . Saying he is a promoter is wacko to the max. We have 100 percent proof in multiple ways

[doublev2]

This is fraud and Anyone who has paid Vinnie anything from the words of Paul runner should sue

[doublev2]

Vinnie isn't an artiste as he described himself . He isn't even a musician. He's an ex musician who retired in 1991

[Genebaby]

Yes, Vinnie continues his fine tradition of speaking through fake accounts.

It's very sad.

[doublev2]

The signer he hired is a normal guy . Vinnie forgot he is making a rock band with characters . People want to hear a singer who is interesting person . Icons ! You can't have a guy who looks like a bank manager assistant as your singer . I will give credit to Vinnie he ain't Normal in a good way. Good or bad mark slaughter was someone people wanted to know about or be ..and that's why slaughter sold more records than any 1980s kiss record.
If you are really going to re record a records with a nobody with auto tune he is making the biggest of many mistakes . Vinnie needs to realise the past is written and doesn't need to be messed with. It's the equivalent of kiss having a regular guy they find working in Starbucks who is in a cover band re recording Vinnie's guitar parts on lick it up and creatures simply because they don't like vinnie.

Vinnie is spending his time re recording his old albums with ai and an amaterur so he doesn't have to do anything new . What happened to the obvious lie that he wrote a kiss style album that was better than kiss? Why not do that . Even if most of us find the singer absurd at least it would be new music and some could over look it.
He isn't able to do it which is the facts . His playing is to the level of an amaterur , he obviously can't write songs and he has zero drive to do anything other than sit 21 hours a day looking at posts about himself and creating fake user names

[shramiac]

The song that helped put Kiss in the grave. Bravo I guess thats why Kiss avoided for so long and then after so many failed Desmond Child KISS albums, Desmond was BANNED and they had to go back to Vinnie.

I'm sure Hori Pro etc love the miniscule amounts Spotify pays out

Well....it is their biggest hit worldwide and arguably their most well known song, especially in the non-hardcare fans.

Desmond wasn't a big problem either. You only have to look at the Bon Jovi sales a couple of years later. 3-4 albums that outsold anything in the KISS catalogue! In fact Slippery sold over a 1/4 of KISS' TOTAL album sales.

[doublev2]

What was Vinnie doing again when dynasty came out ? I don't recall him setting the world in fire and certainly. Desmond Child actually out out his own records before kiss. Can't recall a Vinnie Vincent record before 1986 when he was in his mid 30s. Wonder why Vinnie didn't do anything in his 20s like all the kiss members did?

Dynasty is actually a very distinct album and kiss didn't blow a big shift in style .

[Genebaby]

Dynasty is fantastic, I love it!!

[Luxor]

Dynasty is fantastic, I love it!!

It turned off a ton of KISS fans. The tour lost millions. It ran off the majority of the KISS Army. One of the reason's "Unmasked" stiffed so bad. Kiss did tremendous damage to the brand with Dynasty. And "I Was Made" certainly was one of the big stakes in KISS' heart.

[Luxor]

What was Vinnie doing again when dynasty came out ? I don't recall him setting the world in fire and certainly. Desmond Child actually out out his own records before kiss. Can't recall a Vinnie Vincent record before 1986 when he was in his mid 30s. Wonder why Vinnie didn't do anything in his 20s like all the kiss members did?

Dynasty is actually a very distinct album and kiss didn't blow a big shift in style .

And Desmond Child ruined KISS.

Vinnie a long discography from his work in the 70's.

I guess you don't know about all of Vinnie's work in the 70's. Desmond's two albums in the 70's didn't sell shit.

[Luxor]

The song that helped put Kiss in the grave. Bravo I guess thats why Kiss avoided for so long and then after so many failed Desmond Child KISS albums, Desmond was BANNED and they had to go back to Vinnie.

I'm sure Hori Pro etc love the miniscule amounts Spotify pays out

Well....it is their biggest hit worldwide and arguably their most well known song, especially in the non-hardcare fans.

Desmond wasn't a big problem either. You only have to look at the Bon Jovi sales a couple of years later. 3-4 albums that outsold anything in the KISS catalogue! In fact Slippery sold over a 1/4 of KISS' TOTAL album sales.

Desmond was a huge problem for KISS. He is on arguably most of their worst albums. While Desmond worked well for other bands, KISS was a different story. He sucked with them.

Yes, Slippery sold well. 12M in the US. "Alive" is around 10M in sales.

Desmond never gave KISS the good stuff. He saved that for Aerosmith, Joan Jett, Bon Jovi etc. Desmond was hair metal with KISS. He was the problem. Look at the lackluster albums Desmond was apart of: Dynasty (which turned off hardcore fans), Animalize (a few good songs, the rest filler), Asylum (just dreadful), Crazy Nights, HITS and then Desmond was banned for life from KISS and they brought back in Vinnie to right the ship with the highly successful "Revenge" which blew away the sales of HITS WW. And brought KISS back at a time when most bands were lucky to sell 20% or so what they had been selling.


Look at Dreck Desmond came up with. Utter garbage like: X In Sex, You Make Me Rock Hard, Bang Bang You etc. Thankfully, Polygram got to the heart of why KISS wasn't selling albums. One of the reasons, the wimpy garbage Paul was putting out (with Desmond being one of the main).

After Polygram found out what was wrong with sales. Out goes Desmond, in goes Vinnie.

[Luxor]

I was Made for lovin you wasnt a big hit at the time m it became bigger since the internet . They dropped it for all tours until I think hot in the shade and it was a surprise inclusion that most of the audience's wouldn't have know . I saw that tour 5 times and no one singing along apart from the old kiss fans which in that tour were drowned out by the Mtv top 40 guys there for forever, hide your heart which were big on MTV and probably more so winger and slaughter in support who were getting more mtv play that kiss

Actually, they brought it back during the UK Tour 1988.

"Hide Your Heart" didn't get much play on MTV. In fact, its play was the exact same as "Rise To It". They thought that song would do tremendously and it really tanked for them.

One of the reasons the tour was postponed because the lead off single/video didn't do anything.

HIDE YOUR HEART -rotation on MTV
3 weeks of Medium Rotation
2 weeks of Active Rotation

Then they had to manipulate "Forever" to be a 'hit' but that didn't translate into album sales at all.

If not for Winger and especially Slaughter, that tour probably would have been lucky to do 50 nights.

[Luxor]

Of course it's great that the album was very decent, but Creatures was also great but was a flop in all respects due to the makeup. KISS knew they had to drop it at that point. They should have dropped it for Creatures but were too scared. Creatues being a great album and nobody taking notice made them realise it was now or never. Animalize was successful, people liked the songs and the new look KISS. The unmasking saved them as they discovered people listened with their eyes.

Was it a flop? Look at the big percentage increase in sales from The Elder.

Look at their tour. The past two albums, it was impossible to tour the US.

KISS and the label also did nothing to distinguish themselves from the KISS that everyone had turned away from. Its so naive for people to act like they could turn things completely around with one album (as they pretended Ace was still there). Only 1 music video to promote the new KISS.

To act like the new KISS was ever given much of a chance at all, that's a joke.

All Animalize did is ride the LIU momentum and that didn't last that long as people realized Animalize wasn't anywhere near COTN and Lick It Up and then people didn't rush out to buy their next album.

Animalize shipped 1M copies based on LIU and the strength they had. Sales came crashing down for their next album. So bad in fact, they took off a year.

All Animalize had going for it was Paul trying to redo LIU with HOF. It's also obvious why Gene was desperate to get Vinnie back in KISS. Gene knew Animalize didn't have the songwriting on it.

[VLADIMIR]

Bon Scott would say "I know I ain't doing much, doing nothing means a lot to me"

24/7 recording.........no guitars on the tracks LOL

FROM VINNIE VINCENT

Hey guys.

some update fun.

we been doin 24/7 recording sessions for months.....we're layin everything down from LIVE SHREDDING to the VV Power Ballads...which by the way will be a separate album release in 2025.

We're doin all the VV songs you know and love AND songs you never heard. And we're taking it to next level and beyond VINNIE VINCENT STYLE.

SO...I HAVE A QUESTION 4U.

1. Did you wanna hear a work in progress?

Probably within 10 days.

Depending on your answers...i'll know what to do.

2. These teaser videos are a verse-chorus medley designed to introduce Faysal to everyone... I haven't shredd on them for that reason.

*The VINNIE VINCENT GUITARMAGEDDON SHREDDis coming next month... that's MY ticket to ride when I get MY fun. Lol.

I'm not gonna tell you what the song is yet. Surprise.

There's no guitars on the track because it's NOT finished..

what you would be hearing is a verse-chorus WITHOUT VV GUITARS on it

3. Do you want to hear it in it's raw state?

4. This work-in-progress is gonna be performed at the February 24th VVI show during the unplugged portion of the show.

We're gonna shredd you to death for the first section...take a drinkin intermission and when everyone's feelin good, we gonna unplug.

This is one of the "unplugs" and most likely it will be performed for this (up close and personal) event ONLY. You'll be in for a special experience.

Ok. cheers.

talk soon. V

[doublev2]

You have zero understanding of what kiss was then . It was a top 40 band with no real fans .. like spice girls they just deserted them . Also my understanding was dynasty was one of the biggest selling tours . You have zero understanding. There were non of these kiss geeks and conventions and so called fans who deserved them because of dynasty hahaha. It's bubble gum rock. Disposable music at the time . You act like some sort of people who only like kiss playing hard rock music. All fades and most fans were high school then maybe dropped to middle school for dynasty . But also people changed with the wind back then and one year to like a band was about it . Also some kids moving on to collage where kiss was a non starter.

Dynasty is fantastic, I love it!!

It turned off a ton of KISS fans. The tour lost millions. It ran off the majority of the KISS Army. One of the reason's "Unmasked" stiffed so bad. Kiss did tremendous damage to the brand with Dynasty. And "I Was Made" certainly was one of the big stakes in KISS' heart.

[doublev2]

The continual argument that Vinnie made kiss heavy is absurd.
1. A record is decided before the record the direction. The label and band sit down and think of the sound and a suitable producer to get that sound .
Once a producer is found they will find a studio and engineer that can deliver ion that sound . A particular song can be recorded heavy , soft or in between depending on how they want to record it .
Vinnie being a lead guitar player means be just played the solos on a few tracks . The rhythm guitar drums , vocals and bass obviously the main instruments in making a song heavy not the guitar solos and even if Vinnie did some rhythm he is told what to play , how to play it by the producer and the engineer will chose the equipment and effects to get it done . Not Vinnie .
Vinnie was not there in the beginning deciding this . Vinnie was not on many of the heavy songs already recorded and also. Vinnie had no track record of heavy metal he played with Dan Hartman a disco player and Felix cavailere ex the young rascals hahah.

If anything at all the producer and engineer if kiss made Vinnie heavy and the producer said Vinnie was a melodic player back then.

It's absolutely absurd to think a session lead guitarist had anything to do with making the sound of the whole album. Even if he was a member of the band and played the rhythm guitar it's absurd to think the album just turned out that way without months of planing . And Vinnie wasn't that guy who was in charge

[Luxor]

You have zero understanding of what kiss was then . It was a top 40 band with no real fans .. like spice girls they just deserted them . Also my understanding was dynasty was one of the biggest selling tours . You have zero understanding. There were non of these kiss geeks and conventions and so called fans who deserved them because of dynasty hahaha. It's bubble gum rock. Disposable music at the time . You act like some sort of people who only like kiss playing hard rock music. All fades and most fans were high school then maybe dropped to middle school for dynasty . But also people changed with the wind back then and one year to like a band was about it . Also some kids moving on to collage where kiss was a non starter.

That's pretty funny coming from you, after all you have been eXposed for making up stuff. You clearly know nothing about KISS, their history and you've shown you constantly make up stuff about Vinnie.

Your "understanding" is a joke. The Dynasty Tour was a huge money loser. It lost millions of dollars. Dates were cancelled right and left.


"It wasn't a good omen when our first show was canceled," Paul Stanley dryly notes in his book Face the Music. "The bottom got pulled right out from under us." Audiences were beginning to dwindle, and so the scale and scope of the tour was lost on many.

Read More: When 'The Return of Kiss' Tour Hit a Snag | https://ultimateclassicrock.com/kiss-dy ... m=referral


Onw of the reasons KISS got so screwed on the "Creatures Of The Night" (10th Anniversary Tour) is promoters were taking out their pounds of flesh on KISS for all the money they lost the last time they toured the US.

After that money losing fiasco, KISS can't even tour America the next two years. It's impossible. 1980 they planned 5 or so shows at 3,000 seat Palladium in NYC. They could only do one show because of complete lack of demand.

By 1981, they knew they had to make a hard rock album, but they were incapable of coming up with it. That's why they switched gears towards the dismal "The Elder".

Without Vinnie, KISS could have easily been over in 1982/1983.