Most here seem to agree the guitars are stunning, as you would expect from a custom shop, with a few niggles over the details.
Personally, I can't decide which to get, so I think I'll get the gold leaf for over the mantelpiece, the pink for the bathroom, the white to eat breakfast off and the silver to play (by the double V shaped pool).
On second thoughts, I wonder if you can just buy the 'V' inlays, I may be able to afford ONE of those.
Seriously though, I think they will sell a few but I don't think they expect to sell many. I believe they must be realistic enough to know how expensive (read extortionate) they are. I don’t think they expect to make a LOT of money. And anyway how long would they take to make, how many could they make per year as the shop is so small? How many do they need to make to keep Tom going (or at least move him onto bigger things)? They are obviously not targeting ‘normal’ fans, we are just allowed to drool.
Like Dino, I still wonder ‘why NAMM?’, maybe to gain some kind of credibility?
I think the guitar is either part of a wider strategy (comeback, music etc), or some kind of legacy type thing (possibly with music).
There must be reasons, good, bad or misguided, why Vinnie has not appeared (I put some ideas before in the other NAMM thread) and also for all the other things that don’t seem to make sense. Whatever, we can still only speculate without the big picture.
What is happening is great, what may happen may be better (I hope so for everyone), but it can only the start of something that may take a while.
I've decided It is going to have to be the anniversary model just for the sheer OTT’ness, I don’t care how it sounds, I’ll just stare at it.
"He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which." - Douglas Adams
I think if they enlisted other builders to aid Palecki in his shop ,sales could get better and keep growing. If people have to wait,sales will suffer. Something tells me that Palecki might be sitting on a bunch of body blanks in his garage that are ready to be finished PER ORDER.
THINK: Porter Wagoner
I am the Undisputed Sex Symbolof theVVFF NEWBEGINNINGS
Just one other tidbit I forgot to share. When I was leaving yesterday, Diane starting talking to John5, guitarist for Rob Zombie (formerly of Marilyn Manson). John5 is a huge KISS fan, as well as a Vinnie fan. In fact, he's one of the few popular guitarists I know of who is a big Vinnie fan. In an article in "Guitar Player" a couple of years back, he name-dropped Vinnie in a portion of his lesson, and included a lick inspired by Vinnie. Wonder what they chatted about...
I was talking to genebaby the other day (before NAMM 2011) on the phone & I said to him that the whole Vinnie Vincent sage seems to like some using their name & fame, like a Brand name. And trying a last ditch attempt to ca$h in on it. What's scary is that it my worst fears have come to fruition. After reading what Tom Palecki said, that Vinnie hasn't even played, touched the guitar, it seems like V has totally sold out. When I look at photos in the catalog for the AZG Pear guitars, where he is holding a Jackson, it just crystallizes my initial suspicions. Not even a photo of Vinnie with the new Guitars. Then to make it even worst, the Guitarmageddon guitars are called '86 CLASSIC' PS/SP/WG. From what I have read from people's posts on this forum, the dimensions are not the Jackson's dimensions. The other thing is the headstock is a Pear head stock...How can this guitar be named the 86 Classic model. Jackson changed the model names of the Rhoads when they have been reissued & modified. I feel that these actions by V & Tom are misleading & dishonest. I really starting to think Tom is as conniving, if not more conniving that Vinnie himself. Birds of a feather.
I got Jesus in my fax machine. I saw Ho Chi Minh down @ Burger King. I dated Vinnie Vincent as a Drag Queen. I still don't understand a f**kin' thing. I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass and I'm all out of bubble gum.
maybe john5 bought one. They would be very wide to maybe have him demo the guitar if VV doesn't want to.
Well, I don't know. I still think they will not sell any. I also don't think its all about promoting Vinnie. Tom will have invested a lot of time in this.
In Kiss FAQ somebody just posted that he was in NAMM and talked with the guitar builders as well as with Vinnies wife. Wife said that Vinnie has some new (NEW) music ready. But is this rock music or what? She said she really don't know that much about Vinnies musicaL projects and that V is a very private person. About the guitar: the 12.000 usd has gold leaf all over the body and neck. That shows in the price. They hope that some bigger company would buy the rights so this guitar could be mass produced. That would lower the price. I don't defend the high price but perhaps Vinnie hasn't decided the price, at least he Is not the one who builds them:) But if it really takes 4-6 months to finis one guitar its no wonder that these are quite expencive.
I'm not saying I told you so but a few of us have wondered out loud why Vinnie doesn't go through a bigger company . Now to think of a NAME company that is near Nashville... hmmmMMM... I don't see Gibson doing something that radical BUT WHO KNOWS ?
My initial thought was a company like Dean guitars but because Dean Z . sold the name , Maybe his new company DBZ Guitars would be the perfect fit. Dean Zelinsky seems to be the correct man and company for the Vinnie Vincent Model guitar . COST would be reasonable and quality would be very good with a higher turnout.
DBZ Guitars introduces The Vinnie Vincent Model ???
THINK: Porter Wagoner
I am the Undisputed Sex Symbolof theVVFF NEWBEGINNINGS
Drew could have got VV the deal at Dean for sure. not sure why VV didn't listen to him. I told Tom to speak to Drew years ago.
Now it make sense why they were at NAMM. They want to sell it to someone.. They wont give vv 4 k per guitar I assure.. maybe $300 but thats it and that still wont make it a cheap guitar.
it also would explain that AZG is not being used. Tom will keep Guitarmageddon as a side project with Les Kero and keep AZG for his own project.. on the look of the VV guitar, AZG may get sales on non VV guitars.
Dean or DBZ could do this guitar, yes. That would work. I'd like to see a US model at a fair price and then they could do the imports, as per normal.
As for the turnaround of making these guitars. Tom is clearly taking his time and doing other things in between. If he was working full on, full time it would not take him that long to build one. No specialist Luthier charges 9K and six month turnaround for a guitar unless you're Mr Sandoval, his RR's have been overpriced for a long time.
Either way, say he could make 3 of these a year at his four month build time. Charge 9k each, that's 27k, take away some $$$ for part etc, what is Tom earning in that year? It doesn't add up. And this is only if Tom was getting ALL the money for the guitar. Take away Vinnie's cut and what is he left with? Even less to live in.
It would never work because its obvious that vinnie wants too much money in royalties. He doesn't understand selling a volume of guitars to make your money is better than sell a few for the same price. There are probably at least $1000 people in the world that would buy a import version for around $900 in which if vinnie only got $100 from each one, Thats $100,000 he didn't have before. Sure its not a lump sum but, Greed eats itself alive.
OOPS, let me edit this:
t would never work because its obvious that vinnie wants too much money in royalties. He doesn't understand selling a volume of guitars to make your money is better than sell a few for a higher price. There are probably at least 1000 people in the world that would buy a import version for around $900 in which if vinnie only got $100 from each one, Thats $100,000 he didn't have before. Sure its not a lump sum but....... Greed eats itself alive.
Vinnie is a guitar player and writer. He shouldn't have to do this shit. All he needs to do is his music. Let others think about this shit not him. Could you imagine Hendrix going out there thinking about building guitars in china for 100 bucks.
Its clear through out his career its the business that has bit him in the ass and not his music.
I hope vv is able to do what is his destiny. just make music. and if he just made music he would have a loss less problems with people like fans talking about rip offs and business stratagies (like me).
doublev wrote:Vinnie is a guitar player and writer. He shouldn't have to do this shit. All he needs to do is his music. Let others think about this shit not him. Could you imagine Hendrix going out there thinking about building guitars in china for 100 bucks.
Its clear through out his career its the business that has bit him in the ass and not his music.
I hope vv is able to do what is his destiny. just make music. and if he just made music he would have a loss less problems with people like fans talking about rip offs and business stratagies (like me).
dino really many guitarists get involved in the making of there signature guitars tj is right vinnie is a greedy, self centered person.. theres no denying that .he freaks bout anything to do with him why do you think hes been hiding? i mean really
Dino, it doesn't even have to be an import. Look at carvin. But if you wanna make a lot of money on guitars, you can't sell just a few. Our economy isn't working that way. Carvin has a great model, low cost, high quality guitars that are easy to customize. Carvin makes between 6000 and 8000 guitars a year. I also own a carvin and it was a very reliable work horse. It was also said that they are 900 orders deep in guitars on average. But he burned his bridge there.
wholly shit, carvin sells that much. I love companies who can make a great product at a great value in america. Remo, the drum company is great at that too. Very underated drum maker (not just heads).
I dont think they were that big in the 80s if I remember.
look, what i am saying is vv doesn't need all this crap. he just needs to do it simply. put out what everyone wants.. his lost music and maybe some new. I know he may need to make money, but I know what went on and Vinnie did not got to Tom, it was the other way around so he wasn't like sitting Darth Vader style in his house thinking of ways to be greedy and plotting ways to get thousands of dollars from fans.. he was aproached. We all had a feeling that if the guitars didn't work out that he may crawl back into his whole. But thats exactly what should happen. Crawl into his whole of music and see if he can just put it out.
Truthfully and I am not saying this with a big head, but the day he deleted Quentin and I was the day this all sank and then it got worse and worse. Why did he do that.. it makes no sense.
If this is the end it is actually a cleaner less painful ending than what I was expecting, I thought it was going to get very bad with guitars not being delivered etc.
I don't know his situation but I hope he is cool financially and he should definatly contact some people here if he is in any need (I am sure he is fine).
Who knows if its worth waiting around for the next rising. I am sure that will not happen now, ever.
No, they weren't but, you can see that anything you stick with, it will grow. Carvin was called junk and rip offs and everything. But they stuck with it and improved where they could and as best they could. Now they are a global company. V, judging from his history and we all know men, the older we get the more stuck in our ways we are, isn't the kind of person who sticks with something that doesn't show immediate results. And I mean great results. The box set was a decent result and he tossed it.
i think it may just have been too much work to pull off.. they needed a website, and delaers etc and couldn't get all that together.. i understand that kind of problem.. i have it too, i am way bigger than i can handle sometimes.
as for carvin, thats great.
ALL IS GOOD
ALL IS GOOD.
Everything is moving forward. Please keep your comments positive and the rest will follow. PLEASE TRUST ME ON THIS FOR I CANNOT GO INTO DETAIL . 100% MOVING FORWARD
I am not trying to be the know-it-all here . This is FACT. TRUST ME
THINK: Porter Wagoner
I am the Undisputed Sex Symbolof theVVFF NEWBEGINNINGS
If this is the end of this chapter, then I too hope that he can go back to the music and find some way to give the world some more of what he is genius at.
"He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which." - Douglas Adams
da da da dah! da da dum dahhhhhhh! (old time detective music!)
Promises made, crying in vain, all empty. Never accepting the blame and not letting go of the shame. A river of tears, as months turn to years, all wasted. On someone not willing to change.Now only a shadow remains!
doublev wrote:wholly shit, carvin sells that much. I love companies who can make a great product at a great value in america. Remo, the drum company is great at that too. Very underated drum maker (not just heads).
I dont think they were that big in the 80s if I remember.
Big Enough for Terry Bozzio to play them'
I got Jesus in my fax machine. I saw Ho Chi Minh down @ Burger King. I dated Vinnie Vincent as a Drag Queen. I still don't understand a f**kin' thing. I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass and I'm all out of bubble gum.
ALL IS GOOD, ALL IS WELL. SHOUT OUT PEOPLE AND MAKE A STAND...ALL IS GOOD, ALL IS WELL. DEMAND THAT VINNIE SHOW HIS HAND...ALL IS GOOD, ALL IS WELL. TOM PALECKI AN"T NO HAM. ALL IS GOOD, ALL IS WELL. DIANE CUSANO INVOLVED IN THE SCAM. ALL IS GOOD, ALL IS WELL.
I got Jesus in my fax machine. I saw Ho Chi Minh down @ Burger King. I dated Vinnie Vincent as a Drag Queen. I still don't understand a f**kin' thing. I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass and I'm all out of bubble gum.
poserboy71 wrote:Y'see, That's as positive as Metatron's been in ages.
LMAO MAN ,,, Oh shit, Really, what the fuck is going on
I got Jesus in my fax machine. I saw Ho Chi Minh down @ Burger King. I dated Vinnie Vincent as a Drag Queen. I still don't understand a f**kin' thing. I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass and I'm all out of bubble gum.
doublev wrote:maybe john5 bought one. They would be very wide to maybe have him demo the guitar if VV doesn't want to.
Well, I don't know. I still think they will not sell any. I also don't think its all about promoting Vinnie. Tom will have invested a lot of time in this.
Hey DoubleV-
Have you checked to see if Vinnie may have past writing credits for that country dude Kenney Chesney(sp)?
What the hell do you mean with "all is good"??? I'm totally out of control - you don't have a felling - you know something very interesting don't you?!?!?
I got a feeling - that tonights gonna be.......................
Cruisin' downtown, Shakin' her love, Is that babe talkin' to me, Felt my heart drop, Women can't stop, Girl has got me on my knees, Baby baby babe don't make me wonder, Won't you let me in, She said - see you later, Shot down, I'll be back again
timstar78
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 11840
Location: California
PostPosted: Jan 18, 11 1:22
I went to NAMM this past Saturday and thought I would chime in with my experience.
As a longtime Vinnie fan, I felt a rush of excitement when I turned the corner in the convention hall and saw the Invasion logo and Vinnie's guitars. It almost took me back to being a teenager and staring at all the VVI posters on my wall. All BS and personal attacks aside, I've always maintained my respect for Vinnie's musical contributions to KISS, and his overall talents as a musician and a songwriter. As KISS fans, we all have our favorites, our quirks, our preferences, and this is one of mine. Such is life.
I visited Vinnie's booth twice and spent more than an hour there, collectively. During my first visit, I mainly took pictures. I talked with Les, who is Vinnie's father-in-law, and asked a couple of questions. Vinnie's wife, Diane, and the luthier who built the guitars, Tom Palecki, were not there at that point, so I told him I'd come back. Meanwhile, I took the flyer and card they were handing out. To state the obvious, I believe the guitars are overpriced, but more on that later.
I came back near the end of the day and appropriately the S/T VVI album was playing in the background, via the small boom box on the table. I stayed for the duration of the album, so about 50 minutes. I introduced myself to Diane and chatted with her for at least a half an hour. I can only go by my impression and my experience in spending that time with her. She was very nice and cordial, and looked me in the eye when we spoke. I won't go into everything we chatted about, but here are a few highlights:
- The big question, I asked "How is Vinnie?" She said Vinnie is doing fine, and stressed that he is happy and healthy. She also mentioned they have been married now for 17 years.
- They live in Nashville, Tenn., and have a nice property.
- Vinnie still plays guitar and records, and she says he plays a lot of acoustic around the house.
- She referenced that Vinnie has written country music, and alluded to one of this songs possibly being placed with Kenny Chesney at some point.
- Yes, I asked, "What about new music?" Her answer was that she thinks there will be a Vinnie Vincent release this year. She also mentioned that Vinnie has been hard at work on this guitar project.
- When I brought up "KISSology II" and the fact that Gene and Paul didn't have nice things to say about Vinnie in the commentary, she mentioned something about a lawsuit regarding that DVD set. She also mentioned other lawsuits, including some things that have been settled out of court, but I didn't press this subject further.
- She is aware of the Internet rumor mill, including the fun ones, you know Vinnie being homeless, being a woman, etc. (For the latter, she looked down and showed me her ring, and said, "I should know. I am married to him.") She essentially laughed it all off, and chalked it up to an example of something fictitious being created by hateful people on message boards. By the look in her eyes, I also got the sense that she is hurt that people have said these things about her husband.
- In perhaps the most obvious statement category, she said, and I quote, Vinnie is a "very private person."
- We talked about "Lick It Up" and the magnitude of Vinnie's contributions on the album. She says that he has all of his demos from the album that verify that Vinnie was the principal writer on all of the tracks he co-wrote. (As an aside, I will just say that I have had a very interesting conversation with one producer named Michael James Jackson very recently. He too had some very interesting insights regarding the "Lick It Up" album.)
- She said Vinnie is very creative and a perfectionist, and also mentioned that he was an artist. (I did not ask if he draws or paints.)
As some of you know, I am the inquisitive type and I wanted to ask more questions, and maybe a difficult one or two. But it was not the right time or place to ask about the box set, or any other question including Vinnie and the word "why." Again, I can only sum up my experience as being positive, and though I don't know her, Diane Cusano was very friendly to me. I told her to make sure and tell Vinnie that he has a big fan who has a tremendous amount of respect for his talents, and still aims to play a passable version of his solo in "Ashes To Ashes" one day.
Moving on to Tom Palecki, I asked him if I could ask some questions about the guitars, to which he said, "Sure, what do you want to know?"
Here is a Q&A summary of our conversation:
Q: How long have these guitars been in the making?
A: Four years. It's based on a guitar I built for him in 1992, which was based on the design of his Carvin model.
Q: Which is the anniversary model?
A: The gold one.
Q: What kind of paint does it have?
A: Gold leaf.
Q: How many frets do the guitars have?
A: Three models have 22. The white model has 24.
Q: What kind of pickups?
A: They are outfitted with Seymour Duncan George Lynch Screamin' Demon pickups. With the exception of the pink model, which has a new EMG pickup.
Q: What is the third control knob for?
A: It is a rotary/phaser switch.
Q: What kind of tremolo system do the guitars have?
A: A Floyd Rose Pro, which Vinnie was adamant about having.
Q: Which color will the double-neck model come in?
A: Silver.
Q: How long do you estimate it takes to build one of these guitars?
A: About four-six months.
Q: Are there any prototypes?
A: These are the prototypes.
Q: What about the inlays?
A: They are mother of pearl. The pink model has abalone mother of pearl inlays, and the gold anniversary model has gold leaf mother of pearl.
Q: Has Vinnie played the guitars yet?
A: No, he's only seen pictures. (Note: I found this to be a bit odd. But Tom did point out that they had been in heavy contact, and that Vinnie has been very involved in the process, including sending him photos and diagrams. Obviously the guitars are prototypes, so my take is that Tom has been working on these for the past few months and is finishing these up to send them to Vinnie.)
On that note, Tom also shared that these particular guitars were not totally finished as some of the fretwork still needs touching up. It was a pleasant conversation, and we exchanged contact information. I hope to have a follow-up, more formal/detailed conversation with Tom in the future.
These guitars are very striking in person. They are slick looking and the colors really pop, especially the gold leaf, which was quite impressive. I wanted to pick one up and plug it in and give it a spin.
This is where my questions come in. Why was there no amplifier at the booth and no opportunity to test them out? You were allowed to touch them, but couldn't take them off their stands. That doesn't really equate if they were trying to drum up interest in selling them. And many exhibitors at NAMM will let you test out their products.
And where was Vinnie? Why didn't he represent his guitars at the booth?
What's the deal with the price? Personally, yes, I think they are overpriced. And as big of a fan as I am, I just couldn't rationalize paying $10 K for this guitar, at least not right now. Moreover, to put down that type of money -- again stating the obvious -- I'd have to sit down and play the guitar. (On paper, the guitar seems like it would play very nicely.) Something like this would be a collectible, yes, but not in the sense of traditional collectible guitars like classic Strats or Les Pauls. It's almost more of a novelty item, and personally I'd want to play it, not just put it on display.
Overall, I think it's great that Vinnie has resurfaced and hope that this somehow works out for him and that there will be some sort of new music on the way. But given Vinnie's activity -- or lack thereof -- for the past decade and a half, I can't blame anyone for being hesitant or doubtful about this. I know I have my own hesitations and doubts. Time will see how this all unfolds...
For me personally, even if Vinnie is never heard from again, this will always be a nice memory, as my experience with Diane and Tom was nothing but positive. To that end, I wish Vinnie the best with this venture. And to draw an applicable parallel, if Gene and Paul want to charge $1,000 for meet-and-greets, or Paul wants to charge $5 K for a broken signed guitar, or X artist wants to charge X price for a concert ticket, part of me says Vinnie is well within his right to charge whatever he wants to for his custom guitars, no matter if I or anyone else agree with it.
During my second visit, I took a bunch of more photos. I am not a professional photographer so many came out poorly, and I also shot some video (some of which is shaky, I guess because I felt rushed). One of my videos has gotten nearly 4,000 hits in just two days. Crazy...
THINK: Porter Wagoner
I am the Undisputed Sex Symbolof theVVFF NEWBEGINNINGS
VVV wrote:I'd still take my Jackson over any of these. No mojo, no Vinnie, no Tom. These are copies no better than TJ's.
He could have at least signed the back of the heads and issued a certificate for each one! Again, Vinnie doesn't know WTF he's doing. The prices are an insult to his fans and he's dreaming. Not to mention the fact that he STILL owes money for the box sets will ALWAYS detract from anything he does. And I'm just scratching the surface. His foundation is built on mud.
Yes, What VVV said.
Now it reads this on his youtube account:
The VVMG is "Official" and fully authorized, and will be consecutively numbered. Each VVMG will also come with a Certificate of Authenticity signed by VINNIE VINCENT to insure each VVMG the ultimate in handcrafted quality. After years of cheap looking bootleg VINNIE VINCENT MODEL knockoffs and copies"
I guess SOMEONE is reading this board?!?!
Don't worry Vinnie. I won't charge you for consultation fees
Too late on the part about you not having even played one according to Diane. I guess the pictures were enough? Time to break out Vin and be a little more proactive dude!
