Creatures Of The Night- Kerrang! and Guitar Player – both top 5 year end

[VVArchives]

"Creatures Of The Night received accolades in magazines such as Kerrang! and Guitar Player – which both placed the album in their top five end of year chart for 1982"

https://sidestagemagazine.com/kiss-crea ... t-out-now/


Sadly, I think alot of people forget how truly important COTN was for KISS. And without Vinnie, KISS would have never had those amazing back to back albums which brought them back.

[Genebaby]

I don't know about Guitar Player but Kerrang was equally happy with LIU, maybe more so, and with both Vinnie albums. They are all legendary.

Vinnie wrote three songs for Creatures, so again, he didn't set the tone or direction, he was merely working in the direction KISS was going, which was far left field again from The Elder, which isn't hard.

He only wrote three songs, so are all the others "crap filler" like the stuff you don't like, but I love, on Killers?

No, the other songs are great COTN album songs, the title song itself setting the standard for the album for the fans. This song had nothing from Vinnie, and had Vinnie not been around, yes, there'd be no I Love It Loud, but there would be something else.

LIU was better because KISS were dedicated to the 80's hard rock/metal style and yes, Vinnie wrote even more songs, in the vein they wanted of course, and it was a fantastic album

BTW, I really don't like I Still Love You. A Million to One is a million times better.

[VVArchives]

I don't know about Guitar Player but Kerrang was equally happy with LIU, maybe more so, and with both Vinnie albums. They are all legendary.

Vinnie wrote three songs for Creatures, so again, he didn't set the tone or direction, he was merely working in the direction KISS was going, which was far left field again from The Elder, which isn't hard.

He only wrote three songs, so are all the others "crap filler" like the stuff you don't like, but I love, on Killers?

No, the other songs are great COTN album songs, the title song itself setting the standard for the album for the fans. This song had nothing from Vinnie, and had Vinnie not been around, yes, there'd be no I Love It Loud, but there would be something else.

No, Vinnie wrote many more songs for COTN. I don't know why you keep saying that. Lets go with FACTS. And its a fact, Vinnie wrote numerous songs for the album.

KISS recorded 6 of those songs. Its not known how many more Vinnie actually wrote for the album.

It is obvious, Vinnie set the TONE & DIRECTION of the album with his songwriting. Everything else being equal, all those same songwriters & producers are on the CRAP SONGS that make up Killers.

We know for a fact from Bob Kulick how lost and without direction Gene and Paul were. They weren't setting the direction. They were even looking for Bob to do it. They didn't know what they wanted,


Creatures the song has done nothing for KISS. And while Vinnie's "I Love It Loud" is a top 8 KISS song. Creatures is way down the list. As far as being played live by KISS, I Love It Loud has been played 4X as much live for COTN. I think that speaks volumes on where KISS values I Love It Loud vs COTN.


In fact, prime cuts by Billboard list the best song on the album "Killer". The song that helped the new KISS style. Metal KISS take hold.

Without Vinnie coming in and possibly writing 10 or more songs for the album, we know what we would have gotten most likely. We would have gotten an album full of dreck and style of the 4 songs on KILLERS. Kiss most likely would have lost their label deal and Gene and Paul most likely would have gone solo.

Thankfully, Bob Kulick made crystal clear how bad off Gene and Paul were during the recording. Thanks to that we know the truth about who set the tone and direction of COTN and it was Vinnie.

Just like it was obvious when Vinnie returned for Revenge who set the tone and direction for that album. Without Vinnie, KISS can't do that even if they want to. For that album Gene wrote 10 or more songs with Gene and no telling how many with Paul.

Shame some don't like facts but such is life.

[Genebaby]

Original pressing, Vinnie has no songs on side one as a writer. He did play guitar on them. It's almost a whole album without Vinnie, so he wrote two cool songs, remembering that I Still Love You is pap filler.

It doesn't matter what you think about what it means about being played live etc, it's a fact that the album was going to be killer because KISS wanted it that way this time. War Machine kicks ass, no Vinnie needed.

It's ok, just let it go, you will feel better. Vinnie wrote songs approved by KISS to suit their new album, as did other people.

Side one
No. Title Writer(s) Lead vocals Length
1. "Creatures of the Night" Paul Stanley, Adam Mitchell Stanley 4:02
2. "Saint and Sinner" Gene Simmons, Mikel Japp Simmons 4:50
3. "Keep Me Comin'" Stanley, Mitchell Stanley 3:55
4. "Rock and Roll Hell" Simmons, Bryan Adams, Jim Vallance Simmons 4:11
5. "Danger" Stanley, Mitchell Stanley 3:54
Side two
No. Title Writer(s) Lead vocals Length
6. "I Love It Loud" Simmons, Vinnie Vincent Simmons 4:15
7. "I Still Love You" Stanley, Vincent Stanley 6:06
8. "Killer" Simmons, Vincent Simmons 3:19
9. "War Machine" Simmons, Adams, Vallance Simmons 4:14

[VVArchives]

Original pressing, Vinnie has no songs on side one as a writer. He did play guitar on them. It's almost a whole album without Vinnie, so he wrote two cool songs, remembering that I Still Love You is pap filler.

It doesn't matter what you think about what it means about being played live etc, it's a fact that the album was going to be killer because KISS wanted it that way this time. War Machine kicks ass, no Vinnie needed.

So Kiss didn't want Asylum to be "killer" or Animalize...or Crazy Nights or Hits. And they wanted Killers to be garbage apparently. Why wouldn't they want those albums to be good? Why didn't they want the Elder and Unmasked to be good? Pretty odd of them to just not care about all those albums.

I also love how you completely ignore the 6 songs recorded for COTN and all the others written and not used which set the tone and direction.

Odd how you seem to forget all those same songwriters on COTN were also on Killers and same producer. What was the only difference? Why such a change in musical direction? What was the one thing that changed between the two? Vinnie Vincent


If its "pap filler" why did it get played so much live? Of course, Gene and Paul seem to disagree with you because it was played live so much.

Why don't you go look how many other albums ISLU is on. Go for it! Now go see how many other albums War Machine or COTN are on. Clear winner -- I Still Love You.


Paul's 1989 solo tour
No COTN garbage.
But he did play "I Still Love You" ever night.
and he played a song that Paul hated when Vinnie brought it to him - Lick It Up



Paul's Live To Win tour:
No COTN pap yet again.

But he did play 3 of Vinnie's
I Still Love You
Lick It Up
A Million To One


What was a big highlight of MTV Unplugged?
Oh that's right, I Still Love You



What was the longest song on ALIVE 3?
the over 6 minute long power ballad "I Still Love You"



But I can see why you would get this wrong. Up until recently you kept acting like Kiss was running the show and they fired Vinnie. Thank goodness for HIRSH and the facts. Here's Gene begging Vinnie to return every day for almost 3 months. But you acted like it was their show etc. At least Gene realized how valuable Vinnie was to KISS.

And all one has to do is look how little those albums prior to (Dynasty-The Elder) and after (Animalize thru HITS) why KISS was forced to bring Vinnie back on Revenge. The fans had spoken. They did Polygram what they wanted. Kiss had no other choice. But sure, lets "pretend" Gene and Paul were guiding things during the COTN album recordings but they failed to all those years in between and after again. That's sure logical .... not

[VVArchives]

1. "I'm a Legend Tonight" Paul Stanley, Adam Mitchell 3:59
2. "Down on Your Knees" Stanley, Mikel Japp, Bryan Adams

1. "Nowhere to Run" Stanley 4:32
2. "Partners in Crime" Stanley, Mitchell


Thank goodness this utter crap exists to show us where KISS was with Adam Mitchell, Bryan Adams, Mike Japp

Thank goodness for Vinnie to come in and set the tone & direction with all the songs he wrote for that album. Without Vinnie, you'd have utter pap.

Thankfully Bob Kulick is on record talking about how lost Gene and Paul were. They weren't confident at all. They had no idea what they really wanted.

But if some want to "pretend" Gene and Paul had a clue, good for them! If some want to ignore how lost Gene and Paul were after LIU until Revenge, good for them.


Also, if Mike Japp, Bryan Adams or Adam Mitchell were so good-why are they completely absent on "Lick It Up"?

9 songs on LIU, Vinnie co-wrote. No outside writers at all on LIU.

Yet, that album at the time was hailed as one of their best ever. Amazing. 6 to 7 songs played off it live each night on the LIU tour.

[Genebaby]

Again, that stuff you call utter crap is awesome to me, and many others. Yeah, I don't like ISLY, A Million to One smokes it, but I'm not losing sleep over what they played live. On the Animalize tour ISLY was there, on Paul's solo tour A Million to One was there, but who cares?

So yeah, the Killers songs are not crap and nobody needed Vinnie to set the tone and direction, it was already headed that way. Killers was a test for the band, to work with MJJ and to put out some new material after so long in the wilderness.

Vinnie was not KISS' musical director, how can anybody think that? The other six songs mean nothing as they were not on Creatures, only three of Vinnie's songs did, it's just the way it is. I keep telling you this new guy was not the guy setting the tone for anything other than his amp, and even then Gene may have done that for him.

Let's realise that if Vinnie was so in charge then Creatures would have been a lot like the first VVI album. THAT was Vinnie setting the tone. He always said KISS were holding back, and fair enough. It was KISS, not the Vinnie Vincent Band.

Oh, and everyband obviously wants thier latest album to be their best, and they usually say so at the time. Sometimes it's true, sometimes they realise later it was not true, but they never want their albums to suck, even if it turns out that way.

[VVArchives]

Again, that stuff you call utter crap is awesome to me, and many others. Yeah, I don't like ISLY, A Million to One smokes it, but I'm not losing sleep over what they played live. On the Animalize tour ISLY was there, on Paul's solo tour A Million to One was there, but who cares?

So yeah, the Killers songs are not crap and nobody needed Vinnie to set the tone and direction, it was already headed that way. Killers was a test for the band, to work with MJJ and to put out some new material after so long in the wilderness.

Vinnie was not KISS' musical director, how can anybody think that? The other six songs mean nothing as they were not on Creatures, only three of Vinnie's songs did, it's just the way it is. I keep telling you this new guy was not the guy setting the tone for anything other than his amp, and even then Gene may have done that for him.

Let's realise that if Vinnie was so in charge then Creatures would have been a lot like the first VVI album. THAT was Vinnie setting the tone. He always said KISS were holding back, and fair enough. It was KISS, not the Vinnie Vincent Band.

Oh, and everyband obviously wants thier latest album to be their best, and they usually say so at the time. Sometimes it's true, sometimes they realise later it was not true, but they never want their albums to suck, even if it turns out that way.

Way to avoid most everything that shows you are incorrect.

Your love for garbage songs which none of them made it on COTN is odd. Utter crap that the band didn't care about and they know they suck. Those songs were supposed to be on COTN. But not one of them made it.

Odd how you ignore yet again what Bob Kulick was saying about the Killers recording. But you still want to laughably act like Gene and Paul had a clue the direction they wanted to go in. Why is that?! Why ignore reality?

Vinnie not the musical director? Who else were they recording 6 of their songs for the album? Who else did they write countless other songs with that weren't even recorded for the album.

That's like saying Vinnie wasn't the musical director on LIU even though 9 or the 10 songs are his co-writes.

Also, do you know nothing of Vinnie's history? It doesn't seem so. Because if anyone knew Vinnie's musical history, they wouldn't bring up how the first Invasion album sounded. Not when there is so much musical evidence to show someone making that argument doesn't know what they are talking about. Hirsh talked about how those songs sounded. Again, do you forget everything?! The songs that were supposed to be on Animalize Vinnie was working on did not sound like Invasion.


It was a lost and no direction KISS that as Eric pointed out, Vinnie was trying to turn them into the Vinnie Vincent band. When their is no leadership someone has to step up.

Once again, there would be no reason for Gene to be desperately calling up Vinnie for over 90 days if they didn't need him. How bad Animalize came out just proves how much they needed him. The fact that KISS was chasing every single trend because they were so lost proves once again how bad they needed Vinnie.

The fact that the COTN/LIU metal KISS didn't return until Revenge, proves once again how much Vinnie was needed. Thankfully, Vinnie spent 9 months to a year with them writing for that album. Once again setting the tone and direction for two guys who had no clue.

Yet, without Vinnie after Revenge what did we get? Kiss jumping the shark and releasing the worst album of their career. A grunge album.

There is absolutely nothing to back up Gene and Paul being the musical leaders of KISS and setting the tone/direction of albums from 1982-1992. Nothing. They copied Bon Jovi and everyone else during that time. They jumped on every trend they could.

You also try and dismiss ISLY, even though Gene and Paul obviously thought it was a great song. You call a great song that even they love "Pap" but you want to act like garbage even Gene and Paul dislike and the fans didn't care for is somehow good.


But you are certainly free to keep believing what you choose even though you have absolutely nothing at all to back it up. All the evidence points to the opposite of what you are saying.

[doublev2]

Kerrang polls were all fake. If a label bought a lot of advertising you got in top 10 list at end of year.
Not saying that I don't agree however

"Creatures Of The Night received accolades in magazines such as Kerrang! and Guitar Player – which both placed the album in their top five end of year chart for 1982"

https://sidestagemagazine.com/kiss-crea ... t-out-now/


Sadly, I think alot of people forget how truly important COTN was for KISS. And without Vinnie, KISS would have never had those amazing back to back albums which brought them back.

[doublev2]

Kerrang and guitar player and metal hammer all had Bruce unfortunately above vinnie in best guitar players standings after Bruce joined kiss

[doublev2]

I'm a legend tonight and nowhere to run are as good or better than anything on creatures..I would have put any of the killers tunes over danger and keep me coming as much as I like those tunes as well but legend tonight, thief in the night, its my life and legends never die would have in my opinion made creatures even better.

I would have added all those tunes and cut keep me coming and danger and maybe saint and sinner or just made creatures a longer album

1. "I'm a Legend Tonight" Paul Stanley, Adam Mitchell 3:59
2. "Down on Your Knees" Stanley, Mikel Japp, Bryan Adams

1. "Nowhere to Run" Stanley 4:32
2. "Partners in Crime" Stanley, Mitchell


Thank goodness this utter crap exists to show us where KISS was with Adam Mitchell, Bryan Adams, Mike Japp

Thank goodness for Vinnie to come in and set the tone & direction with all the songs he wrote for that album. Without Vinnie, you'd have utter pap.

Thankfully Bob Kulick is on record talking about how lost Gene and Paul were. They weren't confident at all. They had no idea what they really wanted.

But if some want to "pretend" Gene and Paul had a clue, good for them! If some want to ignore how lost Gene and Paul were after LIU until Revenge, good for them.


Also, if Mike Japp, Bryan Adams or Adam Mitchell were so good-why are they completely absent on "Lick It Up"?

9 songs on LIU, Vinnie co-wrote. No outside writers at all on LIU.

Yet, that album at the time was hailed as one of their best ever. Amazing. 6 to 7 songs played off it live each night on the LIU tour.

[doublev2]

Vinnie wasn't the music director as you call it ..it was Michael Jackson. The musical director is the producer . That's what the producer is. The engineer records the music and the producer decides the direction. Instruments. Musicians , tone etc and he gets the engineer to deliver that .

Writing a song and playing the guitar solo definitely doesn't make you rhe producer or the musical director as you weirdly call it. I've never heard such garbage in my life.

If kiss had Vinnie produce the record you could have had a valid point ..Vinnie ironically has never producerd an album that has been released without being joint producer with Dana Strum. Also both vv Co Productions had some of the worst sounding drum tone I ever heard. He and Dana were good with the rest though..but the vvi albums drums compared to Creatures is night and day.

Again, that stuff you call utter crap is awesome to me, and many others. Yeah, I don't like ISLY, A Million to One smokes it, but I'm not losing sleep over what they played live. On the Animalize tour ISLY was there, on Paul's solo tour A Million to One was there, but who cares?

So yeah, the Killers songs are not crap and nobody needed Vinnie to set the tone and direction, it was already headed that way. Killers was a test for the band, to work with MJJ and to put out some new material after so long in the wilderness.

Vinnie was not KISS' musical director, how can anybody think that? The other six songs mean nothing as they were not on Creatures, only three of Vinnie's songs did, it's just the way it is. I keep telling you this new guy was not the guy setting the tone for anything other than his amp, and even then Gene may have done that for him.

Let's realise that if Vinnie was so in charge then Creatures would have been a lot like the first VVI album. THAT was Vinnie setting the tone. He always said KISS were holding back, and fair enough. It was KISS, not the Vinnie Vincent Band.

Oh, and everyband obviously wants thier latest album to be their best, and they usually say so at the time. Sometimes it's true, sometimes they realise later it was not true, but they never want their albums to suck, even if it turns out that way.

Way to avoid most everything that shows you are incorrect.

Your love for garbage songs which none of them made it on COTN is odd. Utter crap that the band didn't care about and they know they suck. Those songs were supposed to be on COTN. But not one of them made it.

Odd how you ignore yet again what Bob Kulick was saying about the Killers recording. But you still want to laughably act like Gene and Paul had a clue the direction they wanted to go in. Why is that?! Why ignore reality?

Vinnie not the musical director? Who else were they recording 6 of their songs for the album? Who else did they write countless other songs with that weren't even recorded for the album.

That's like saying Vinnie wasn't the musical director on LIU even though 9 or the 10 songs are his co-writes.

Also, do you know nothing of Vinnie's history? It doesn't seem so. Because if anyone knew Vinnie's musical history, they wouldn't bring up how the first Invasion album sounded. Not when there is so much musical evidence to show someone making that argument doesn't know what they are talking about. Hirsh talked about how those songs sounded. Again, do you forget everything?! The songs that were supposed to be on Animalize Vinnie was working on did not sound like Invasion.


It was a lost and no direction KISS that as Eric pointed out, Vinnie was trying to turn them into the Vinnie Vincent band. When their is no leadership someone has to step up.

Once again, there would be no reason for Gene to be desperately calling up Vinnie for over 90 days if they didn't need him. How bad Animalize came out just proves how much they needed him. The fact that KISS was chasing every single trend because they were so lost proves once again how bad they needed Vinnie.

The fact that the COTN/LIU metal KISS didn't return until Revenge, proves once again how much Vinnie was needed. Thankfully, Vinnie spent 9 months to a year with them writing for that album. Once again setting the tone and direction for two guys who had no clue.

Yet, without Vinnie after Revenge what did we get? Kiss jumping the shark and releasing the worst album of their career. A grunge album.

There is absolutely nothing to back up Gene and Paul being the musical leaders of KISS and setting the tone/direction of albums from 1982-1992. Nothing. They copied Bon Jovi and everyone else during that time. They jumped on every trend they could.

You also try and dismiss ISLY, even though Gene and Paul obviously thought it was a great song. You call a great song that even they love "Pap" but you want to act like garbage even Gene and Paul dislike and the fans didn't care for is somehow good.


But you are certainly free to keep believing what you choose even though you have absolutely nothing at all to back it up. All the evidence points to the opposite of what you are saying.

[aeroflott]

I think you have to look at this whole topic subjectively.

Every band probably has songs they dislike, but realise that they have to play them because the fans expect to hear them. Doesn't Paul dislike I Love It Loud for example? But that's a been live staple since forever. Equally, he probably played LIU on his solo tour, because he realised the song was a hit and fans would like to hear it, not necessarily because he loves it.

In my view Saint and Sinner is the greatest Kiss song ever written (hey, that's just me!) but its never been played live and I know it never will. It is what it is.

As for Killers songs being "crap". That's just one view. I like them personally.

[Mikelangelo]

For me, everything KISS ever did with Vinnie, works pretty well!!! It did back then and still does!!!

[Genebaby]

I'm a legend tonight and nowhere to run are as good or better than anything on creatures..I would have put any of the killers tunes over danger and keep me coming as much as I like those tunes as well but legend tonight, thief in the night, its my life and legends never die would have in my opinion made creatures even better.

I would have added all those tunes and cut keep me coming and danger and maybe saint and sinner or just made creatures a longer album

1. "I'm a Legend Tonight" Paul Stanley, Adam Mitchell 3:59
2. "Down on Your Knees" Stanley, Mikel Japp, Bryan Adams

1. "Nowhere to Run" Stanley 4:32
2. "Partners in Crime" Stanley, Mitchell


Thank goodness this utter crap exists to show us where KISS was with Adam Mitchell, Bryan Adams, Mike Japp

Thank goodness for Vinnie to come in and set the tone & direction with all the songs he wrote for that album. Without Vinnie, you'd have utter pap.

Thankfully Bob Kulick is on record talking about how lost Gene and Paul were. They weren't confident at all. They had no idea what they really wanted.

But if some want to "pretend" Gene and Paul had a clue, good for them! If some want to ignore how lost Gene and Paul were after LIU until Revenge, good for them.


Also, if Mike Japp, Bryan Adams or Adam Mitchell were so good-why are they completely absent on "Lick It Up"?

9 songs on LIU, Vinnie co-wrote. No outside writers at all on LIU.

Yet, that album at the time was hailed as one of their best ever. Amazing. 6 to 7 songs played off it live each night on the LIU tour.

Yes, it's funny, with the songs we know they had, why was Creatures only 9 songs? Back when I was a kid I wondered about that. Destroyer, only 9 songs? Why not at least one more?

[Genebaby]

Vinnie wasn't the music director as you call it ..it was Michael Jackson. The musical director is the producer . That's what the producer is. The engineer records the music and the producer decides the direction. Instruments. Musicians , tone etc and he gets the engineer to deliver that .

Writing a song and playing the guitar solo definitely doesn't make you rhe producer or the musical director as you weirdly call it. I've never heard such garbage in my life.

If kiss had Vinnie produce the record you could have had a valid point ..Vinnie ironically has never producerd an album that has been released without being joint producer with Dana Strum. Also both vv Co Productions had some of the worst sounding drum tone I ever heard. He and Dana were good with the rest though..but the vvi albums drums compared to Creatures is night and day.

Again, that stuff you call utter crap is awesome to me, and many others. Yeah, I don't like ISLY, A Million to One smokes it, but I'm not losing sleep over what they played live. On the Animalize tour ISLY was there, on Paul's solo tour A Million to One was there, but who cares?

So yeah, the Killers songs are not crap and nobody needed Vinnie to set the tone and direction, it was already headed that way. Killers was a test for the band, to work with MJJ and to put out some new material after so long in the wilderness.

Vinnie was not KISS' musical director, how can anybody think that? The other six songs mean nothing as they were not on Creatures, only three of Vinnie's songs did, it's just the way it is. I keep telling you this new guy was not the guy setting the tone for anything other than his amp, and even then Gene may have done that for him.

Let's realise that if Vinnie was so in charge then Creatures would have been a lot like the first VVI album. THAT was Vinnie setting the tone. He always said KISS were holding back, and fair enough. It was KISS, not the Vinnie Vincent Band.

Oh, and everyband obviously wants thier latest album to be their best, and they usually say so at the time. Sometimes it's true, sometimes they realise later it was not true, but they never want their albums to suck, even if it turns out that way.

Way to avoid most everything that shows you are incorrect.

Your love for garbage songs which none of them made it on COTN is odd. Utter crap that the band didn't care about and they know they suck. Those songs were supposed to be on COTN. But not one of them made it.

Odd how you ignore yet again what Bob Kulick was saying about the Killers recording. But you still want to laughably act like Gene and Paul had a clue the direction they wanted to go in. Why is that?! Why ignore reality?

Vinnie not the musical director? Who else were they recording 6 of their songs for the album? Who else did they write countless other songs with that weren't even recorded for the album.

That's like saying Vinnie wasn't the musical director on LIU even though 9 or the 10 songs are his co-writes.

Also, do you know nothing of Vinnie's history? It doesn't seem so. Because if anyone knew Vinnie's musical history, they wouldn't bring up how the first Invasion album sounded. Not when there is so much musical evidence to show someone making that argument doesn't know what they are talking about. Hirsh talked about how those songs sounded. Again, do you forget everything?! The songs that were supposed to be on Animalize Vinnie was working on did not sound like Invasion.


It was a lost and no direction KISS that as Eric pointed out, Vinnie was trying to turn them into the Vinnie Vincent band. When their is no leadership someone has to step up.

Once again, there would be no reason for Gene to be desperately calling up Vinnie for over 90 days if they didn't need him. How bad Animalize came out just proves how much they needed him. The fact that KISS was chasing every single trend because they were so lost proves once again how bad they needed Vinnie.

The fact that the COTN/LIU metal KISS didn't return until Revenge, proves once again how much Vinnie was needed. Thankfully, Vinnie spent 9 months to a year with them writing for that album. Once again setting the tone and direction for two guys who had no clue.

Yet, without Vinnie after Revenge what did we get? Kiss jumping the shark and releasing the worst album of their career. A grunge album.

There is absolutely nothing to back up Gene and Paul being the musical leaders of KISS and setting the tone/direction of albums from 1982-1992. Nothing. They copied Bon Jovi and everyone else during that time. They jumped on every trend they could.

You also try and dismiss ISLY, even though Gene and Paul obviously thought it was a great song. You call a great song that even they love "Pap" but you want to act like garbage even Gene and Paul dislike and the fans didn't care for is somehow good.


But you are certainly free to keep believing what you choose even though you have absolutely nothing at all to back it up. All the evidence points to the opposite of what you are saying.

Spot on Dino. A new, not even properly hired, gun guitar player does not set the tone and direction for anything. He does as he's told and writes and submits what he thinks might make the cut.

On Killers they made a fresh start with MJJ as producer. That went well, and the Creatures album went ahead and they had the big drum sound, a big, bombastic, proper return to KISS form.

Due to it's techincal failure Gene has stated that they didn't replicate that on LIU because it hadn't worked, and in a business like fashion they were going to try it differently, rather than re-do the Creatures sound. Of course I love Creatures, but I prefer the production on LIU. It's the perfect album.

So VVArchives, you have to stop saying things about Vinnie coming in and setting the tone and direction, it's over. That is not how it ever works. An unknown guitarist, trying out for a band, who only gets the spot at the 11th hour due to circumstance, is not, and never could be, the musical director of that band. How is that so hard to see.

You can also see, people like so many KISS songs you seem to dislike, which is fine, but you use your dislike as proof they are garbage, for some reason. Who does that? That makes no sense.

Oh, and we have Vinnie to thank for the crappy drums on the VVI album. The drum sound is the only negative that album gets when reviewed and it's all on Vinnie. Bobby has told us the agonizing story about what happened to the drums and how great they could have been. I'm so bummed that Vinnie ruined the drums, would have loved to have heard that album with the proper drums, not the neutered shit we ended up with.

[Genebaby]

I think you have to look at this whole topic subjectively.

Every band probably has songs they dislike, but realise that they have to play them because the fans expect to hear them. Doesn't Paul dislike I Love It Loud for example? But that's a been live staple since forever. Equally, he probably played LIU on his solo tour, because he realised the song was a hit and fans would like to hear it, not necessarily because he loves it.

In my view Saint and Sinner is the greatest Kiss song ever written (hey, that's just me!) but its never been played live and I know it never will. It is what it is.

As for Killers songs being "crap". That's just one view. I like them personally.

Exactly. Gene hates IWMFLY, always did, probably still does, but it has been back in the KISS live set since 88. He probably enjoyed it's demise, but he's been playing it for over 35 years now.

We can celeberate that they play these songs but it isn't any kind of proof of anything one way or another. Except maybe Paul's solo tour in the 2000's, where he did play A Million To One. That tour would be more of a selfish pleasure for the songs, but on a KISS show, it's not about the hand picked song's anyone loves, it's what are the best songs we think we should play?

[VVArchives]

Kerrang polls were all fake. If a label bought a lot of advertising you got in top 10 list at end of year.
Not saying that I don't agree however

"Creatures Of The Night received accolades in magazines such as Kerrang! and Guitar Player – which both placed the album in their top five end of year chart for 1982"

https://sidestagemagazine.com/kiss-crea ... t-out-now/


Sadly, I think alot of people forget how truly important COTN was for KISS. And without Vinnie, KISS would have never had those amazing back to back albums which brought them back.

Wow, you folded faster than CBS and twitter.

Vv archives isn't worth me reading the insane posts so not reading or replying.

Wouldnt it be great if you did stop reading and replying with more of your "made up" stuff. That would be excellent! Your "fiction" gets old

[VVArchives]

I think you have to look at this whole topic subjectively.

Every band probably has songs they dislike, but realise that they have to play them because the fans expect to hear them. Doesn't Paul dislike I Love It Loud for example? But that's a been live staple since forever. Equally, he probably played LIU on his solo tour, because he realised the song was a hit and fans would like to hear it, not necessarily because he loves it.

In my view Saint and Sinner is the greatest Kiss song ever written (hey, that's just me!) but its never been played live and I know it never will. It is what it is.

As for Killers songs being "crap". That's just one view. I like them personally.

Exactly. Gene hates IWMFLY, always did, probably still does, but it has been back in the KISS live set since 88. He probably enjoyed it's demise, but he's been playing it for over 35 years now.

We can celeberate that they play these songs but it isn't any kind of proof of anything one way or another. Except maybe Paul's solo tour in the 2000's, where he did play A Million To One. That tour would be more of a selfish pleasure for the songs, but on a KISS show, it's not about the hand picked song's anyone loves, it's what are the best songs we think we should play?

He should hate IWM5LY The song helped kill off KISS. And after he was forced to call Vinnie to get them back on track with Revenge, who did he ban for ever working with KISS again? Desmond Child. (edited song)

[Genebaby]

I think you mean IWMFLY, not ISLY.

[VVArchives]

Vinnie wasn't the music director as you call it ..it was Michael Jackson. The musical director is the producer . That's what the producer is. The engineer records the music and the producer decides the direction. Instruments. Musicians , tone etc and he gets the engineer to deliver that .

Writing a song and playing the guitar solo definitely doesn't make you rhe producer or the musical director as you weirdly call it. I've never heard such garbage in my life.

If kiss had Vinnie produce the record you could have had a valid point ..Vinnie ironically has never producerd an album that has been released without being joint producer with Dana Strum. Also both vv Co Productions had some of the worst sounding drum tone I ever heard. He and Dana were good with the rest though..but the vvi albums drums compared to Creatures is night and day.

Again, that stuff you call utter crap is awesome to me, and many others. Yeah, I don't like ISLY, A Million to One smokes it, but I'm not losing sleep over what they played live. On the Animalize tour ISLY was there, on Paul's solo tour A Million to One was there, but who cares?

So yeah, the Killers songs are not crap and nobody needed Vinnie to set the tone and direction, it was already headed that way. Killers was a test for the band, to work with MJJ and to put out some new material after so long in the wilderness.

Vinnie was not KISS' musical director, how can anybody think that? The other six songs mean nothing as they were not on Creatures, only three of Vinnie's songs did, it's just the way it is. I keep telling you this new guy was not the guy setting the tone for anything other than his amp, and even then Gene may have done that for him.

Let's realise that if Vinnie was so in charge then Creatures would have been a lot like the first VVI album. THAT was Vinnie setting the tone. He always said KISS were holding back, and fair enough. It was KISS, not the Vinnie Vincent Band.

Oh, and everyband obviously wants thier latest album to be their best, and they usually say so at the time. Sometimes it's true, sometimes they realise later it was not true, but they never want their albums to suck, even if it turns out that way.

Way to avoid most everything that shows you are incorrect.

Your love for garbage songs which none of them made it on COTN is odd. Utter crap that the band didn't care about and they know they suck. Those songs were supposed to be on COTN. But not one of them made it.

Odd how you ignore yet again what Bob Kulick was saying about the Killers recording. But you still want to laughably act like Gene and Paul had a clue the direction they wanted to go in. Why is that?! Why ignore reality?

Vinnie not the musical director? Who else were they recording 6 of their songs for the album? Who else did they write countless other songs with that weren't even recorded for the album.

That's like saying Vinnie wasn't the musical director on LIU even though 9 or the 10 songs are his co-writes.

Also, do you know nothing of Vinnie's history? It doesn't seem so. Because if anyone knew Vinnie's musical history, they wouldn't bring up how the first Invasion album sounded. Not when there is so much musical evidence to show someone making that argument doesn't know what they are talking about. Hirsh talked about how those songs sounded. Again, do you forget everything?! The songs that were supposed to be on Animalize Vinnie was working on did not sound like Invasion.


It was a lost and no direction KISS that as Eric pointed out, Vinnie was trying to turn them into the Vinnie Vincent band. When their is no leadership someone has to step up.

Once again, there would be no reason for Gene to be desperately calling up Vinnie for over 90 days if they didn't need him. How bad Animalize came out just proves how much they needed him. The fact that KISS was chasing every single trend because they were so lost proves once again how bad they needed Vinnie.

The fact that the COTN/LIU metal KISS didn't return until Revenge, proves once again how much Vinnie was needed. Thankfully, Vinnie spent 9 months to a year with them writing for that album. Once again setting the tone and direction for two guys who had no clue.

Yet, without Vinnie after Revenge what did we get? Kiss jumping the shark and releasing the worst album of their career. A grunge album.

There is absolutely nothing to back up Gene and Paul being the musical leaders of KISS and setting the tone/direction of albums from 1982-1992. Nothing. They copied Bon Jovi and everyone else during that time. They jumped on every trend they could.

You also try and dismiss ISLY, even though Gene and Paul obviously thought it was a great song. You call a great song that even they love "Pap" but you want to act like garbage even Gene and Paul dislike and the fans didn't care for is somehow good.


But you are certainly free to keep believing what you choose even though you have absolutely nothing at all to back it up. All the evidence points to the opposite of what you are saying.

Spot on Dino. A new, not even properly hired, gun guitar player does not set the tone and direction for anything. He does as he's told and writes and submits what he thinks might make the cut.

On Killers they made a fresh start with MJJ as producer. That went well, and the Creatures album went ahead and they had the big drum sound, a big, bombastic, proper return to KISS form.

Due to it's techincal failure Gene has stated that they didn't replicate that on LIU because it hadn't worked, and in a business like fashion they were going to try it differently, rather than re-do the Creatures sound. Of course I love Creatures, but I prefer the production on LIU. It's the perfect album.

So VVArchives, you have to stop saying things about Vinnie coming in and setting the tone and direction, it's over. That is not how it ever works. An unknown guitarist, trying out for a band, who only gets the spot at the 11th hour due to circumstance, is not, and never could be, the musical director of that band. How is that so hard to see.

You can also see, people like so many KISS songs you seem to dislike, which is fine, but you use your dislike as proof they are garbage, for some reason. Who does that? That makes no sense.

First off you are agreeing with the guy who hasn't been right about anything. Everything from Paul Stanley allegedly filing for bankrupty in 2004. FALSE. To Vinnie videos never being in rotation- False. You name it, he's wrong.


No, you have to quit saying false things. Remember, you were falsely claiming just a few weeks ago that Vinnie was fired and you went on and on about Gene and Paul and you acted like they knew what they were doing. You were completely and utterly wrong.


You can make up nonsense and say Drum Sound. Nobody cared. Guess what they dumped for the Vinnie Vincent solo album? That drum sound.

That had nothing to do with Kiss going metal and Vinnie taking them there.

Vinnie comes in and probably writes 10 or more songs for Creatures. 6 are recorded. Yet, the Vinnie haters claim Vinnie didn't set the tone and direction.

As usual, GeneBaby ignores Bob Kulick talking about how lost Gene and Paul were during Killers. But we are to believe they got their "shit" together and they did it?

Of course, then GeneBaby ignores how crappy all those albums in between were and once the record label got the results of the survey- they had to call back in Vinnie. And Vinnie writing with them for over 9 months once again set the tone and direction of Revenge. And Bob Ezrin wasn't there.

Also, just like the crappy Killers tracks (which even Paul trashes) .. we know what Kiss sounded like prior to the Pyro Messiah saving their butts.

We also know how pussified KISS sounded with Ezrin prior to Vinnie writing with them for 9 months or more and being in the studio with them.

Proof positive how KISS was prior to and then After Vinnie.


GeneBaby even laughably ignores what Vini Ponici said about the songwriting setting the tone. He laughably made some hilarious argument about Bob Kulick and Naked City. Bob was a tiny bit player. He wasn't the main songwriter at all for that album. Ace and Paul were writing pop songs and they got a pop album.


The songs on Killers sound nothing at all like COTN. And the big drum sound is meaningless. As they sure dropped that for the album that sold 1M in the states and 1.5M WW prior to "ride the momentum" album came out.

Nobody else came close to writing 10 or more songs for COTN. Nobody else came close to having 6 recorded for the album. Vinnie was the main driver because Gene and Paul had no clue.

Same reason Kiss did the Elder, because they were trying to make a rock album and they weren't getting anywhere. So they had to go with the disastrous concept album that put KISS 6 feet under.

And some can pretend songs even Paul bashes are good, heck, some act like The Elder is good. There's no accounting for taste or reality.

Those 4 songs were supposed to end up on COTN and they were all dumped. Mediocre pap that didn't fit the new Metal KISS.

[VVArchives]

For me, everything KISS ever did with Vinnie, works pretty well!!! It did back then and still does!!!

I love real Vinnie fans! This man has great taste!

[Genebaby]

GeneBaby even laughably ignores what Vini Ponici said about the songwriting setting the tone. He laughably made some hilarious argument about Bob Kulick and Naked City. Bob was a tiny bit player. He wasn't the main songwriter at all for that album. Ace and Paul were writing pop songs and they got a pop album.

Wow!! As I explained Bob wrote a much heavier song when he did Naked City, but became more poppy. Showing that he, like Vinnie, did not set the tone for album. HOw can you twist that?

[VVArchives]

I think you have to look at this whole topic subjectively.

Every band probably has songs they dislike, but realise that they have to play them because the fans expect to hear them. Doesn't Paul dislike I Love It Loud for example? But that's a been live staple since forever. Equally, he probably played LIU on his solo tour, because he realised the song was a hit and fans would like to hear it, not necessarily because he loves it.

In my view Saint and Sinner is the greatest Kiss song ever written (hey, that's just me!) but its never been played live and I know it never will. It is what it is.

As for Killers songs being "crap". That's just one view. I like them personally.

I think Paul is jealous of I Love It Loud. I think Paul hates that Gene has one of the biggest songs in the KISS catalogue.

Did you ever see Paul whining in one of the Revenge interviews and he says Unholy wasn't the first single. Paul had the first single off the album.

Larry Mazer wanted "Domino" as the next single but Gene refused because he knew Paul would throw a tantrum.

And it was funny to see Desmond whine when Gene banned him from KISS. Desmond was horrible for KISS. He could write some stuff people like but most of the stuff he gave KISS either helped sink them (I Was Made) or was utter garbage like Bang Bang You, You Make Me Rock Hard, X In Sex and others.

The guy is giving Bon Jovi, Aerosmith and others big hits.

[VVArchives]

GeneBaby even laughably ignores what Vini Ponici said about the songwriting setting the tone. He laughably made some hilarious argument about Bob Kulick and Naked City. Bob was a tiny bit player. He wasn't the main songwriter at all for that album. Ace and Paul were writing pop songs and they got a pop album.

Wow!! As I explained Bob wrote a much heavier song when he did Naked City, but became more poppy. Showing that he, like Vinnie, did not set the tone for album. HOw can you twist that?

Bob was a bit contributor to that song. And that's ALL he did for Unmasked. Bob sucks as a writer.
It took 4 people to write that throw away song: Gene Simmons, Poncia, Bob Kulick, Peppy

Bob is not a writer at all. And Bob certainly couldn't set the tone or direction of anything. Because he's not a good songwriter

Where's all the other Bob songs on Unmasked? Nowhere

How many Bob songs did they record for Unmasked? 1 lousy song and it took 3 other writers.

Vinnie was writing most of that stuff on his own with Gene and Paul throwing in a little bit and taking credit.

Unlike Bob, they recorded 6 of his songs for the album

Unlike Bob, Vinnie wrote 10 or more songs for that album setting the tone and direction.


And like it was said by Vini Ponicia, the album was poppy because that's what the main songwriters were writing.

Bob didn't do jack **** for unmasked.

How hard is that to understand? Using Bob as an argument is pointless. Because his songwriting is garbage

[Genebaby]

It's not about any of what you are saying, it's about the songwriters who were not Gene and Paul, and not the producer don't set the tone or direction. I think everybody else in the world gets this except you.

Big or small contributions, they are just that contributions that are assessed and they make it on the album or not. When that songwrite is surprised at how the song now sounds, better or worse, doesn't matter, as they had no influence, they just wrote something.

Vinnie had three songs on Creatures, and not matter how you try to belittle Bob, he was a GREAT friend of the band from the early days, you have to know that. Vinnie had nothing on Bob.

Damn, I just realised, if Paul and Vinnie had gotten along and split better Vinnie could have been in Pauls 89 solo band.

Your opinion of Bob's songwriting makes nothing you say factual. How does this keep happening?

[VVArchives]

It's not about any of what you are saying, it's about the songwriters who were not Gene and Paul, and not the producer don't set the tone or direction. I think everybody else in the world gets this except you.

Big or small contributions, they are just that contributions that are assessed and they make it on the album or not. When that songwrite is surprised at how the song now sounds, better or worse, doesn't matter, as they had no influence, they just wrote something.

Vinnie had three songs on Creatures, and not matter how you try to belittle Bob, he was a GREAT friend of the band from the early days, you have to know that. Vinnie had nothing on Bob.

Damn, I just realised, if Paul and Vinnie had gotten along and split better Vinnie could have been in Pauls 89 solo band.

Your opinion of Bob's songwriting makes nothing you say factual. How does this keep happening?

No, you don't get it. And Bob was somebody KISS used. He wasn't some great friend. Bob ripped into them for paying him so little etc. They screwed him like they screw everyone.

And his brother was kissing their ass so they could get $9000 to share for playing the KISS Kruise once a year.


You love crappy songwriting we get it. You love crap even the people who wrote it admits its shit. Where are all these great Bob Kulick songs? Where's all the single/videos of songs Bob Kulick wrote? Bruce sucked as a songwriter but compared to Bob he's Desmond Child (For Aerosmith etc).

Bob is one of 4 lousy writers for Naked City and you laughably act like Bob could set the direction of Unmasked. Bob isn't known at all as a songwriter.

Vinnie had everything on Bob. Unlike Bob, Vinnie was writing the songs that were singles/videos. He was the one writing the songs that were concert staples.

All Bob could do is come in and imitate Ace.


Everyone with a clue knows the person doing most of the work is the one setting the direction. Its also very apparent when all things being pretty much equal, they sucked prior to one coming in and writing over 10 songs with them. 6 recorded for the album.

And then when that person left, the songwriting and direction was shit for years and years

and only after Polygram did a survey showing why nobody was buying KISS albums and Gene finally called Vinnie to save their butts again did that Metal KISS sound return.

But because some hate Vinnie so terribly much, they want to deny what the guy did in the band.


Maybe in Australia they don't know how to debate at all. In North America, if people claimed Bob was some great songwriter and his songwriting doesn't suck, they would list all those songs he wrote with KISS that were singles, videos or concert staples? But of course, there are none.

Or list all the songs Bob Kulick wrote for WASP?


Where's all those great songs he wrote with Michael Bolton?

Where's all those great songs he wrote with Meatloaf?

Other than Naked City (where he was 1 of 4) .. name 1 song someone might have heard of ? Pretty near impossible. Because Bob wasn't a songwriter at all.


Vinnie had everything on Bob! He had talent. He also had the goods.

That's why a brand new guy comes in and writes over 10 songs for the new album. Nobody came close to that at all. No one.

He can write with Gene just as easily as he writes with Paul. How many others were knocking out singles/videos with both? Or concert staples?

A brand new guy has 6 of his songs recorded for the album. And who knows why MJJ was too stupid to put them all on there. Or if KISS didn't want to look like it was the Cusano band on that album.

But with Bob who they ripped his playing and nothing he did was good enough at all, he was some big friend of theirs. You laughably claim this guy who they are ripping apart had more than a talented guy Gene and Paul knew could save their butts.


Just remember how little Gene and Paul were willing to pay Bruce and Bob. They used them. Neither have any real friends, They are users. That's it.

Here they are on a cruise grossing millions of dollars and they are so generous to the Kulick brothers. True friends indeed.

[VVArchives]

I remember a single for I Love It Loud off Creatures

I remember "Killer" being a single off I Love It Loud

I remember I Still Love you being a concert staple

I believe I Love It Loud was also the single from Alive III and the Monster Box Set.

I remember I Love It Loud being used to kick off Monday Night Football.




Then on the very next album 9 of the 10 songs by whom?

But sure, he wasn't setting the tone and direction for KISS


and Vinnie goes AWOL and Gene is calling him every single day trying to get him back for Animalize.
and Animalize rides COTN & LIU but then people realize its a pretty mediocre record full of filler.

Kiss goes from playing 6-7 songs off LIU to only doing 2 to support Animalize.
Only 2 songs got played more than 1/3 of the tour or more.

Vinnie had 5 songs played during the Animalize tour


Vinnie has 4 songs on the bulk of the Asylum Tour
HOF is pretty much the only song that survived off Animalize.
A Who cover song album gets played for 1/2 the tour
Coming in behind a Who cover song... Under the Gun and Creatures of the Night.


Off Asylum, two songs are pretty much all that get played live.


Without Vinnie, carrying the load its pretty easy to see how far Gene and Paul fell. Their new material just wasn't cutting it at all.


But remember, some still doesn't think Vinnie was the driving force.

[aeroflott]

You keep talking about Vinnie "writing" all these songs. I think you mean he co-wrote or had a hand in those songs. Those are two different things.

[doublev2]

Maybe creatures only 9 songs as they were trying to rush it out ? Also I heard they were very low on money and went over on the budget.

Thats said they couldn't have I still love you and legends never die on same record as it could start to sound soft again. I would have kept legends never die and its my life for lick it up..would have made that a better record in my opinion

I'm a legend tonight and nowhere to run are as good or better than anything on creatures..I would have put any of the killers tunes over danger and keep me coming as much as I like those tunes as well but legend tonight, thief in the night, its my life and legends never die would have in my opinion made creatures even better.

I would have added all those tunes and cut keep me coming and danger and maybe saint and sinner or just made creatures a longer album

1. "I'm a Legend Tonight" Paul Stanley, Adam Mitchell 3:59
2. "Down on Your Knees" Stanley, Mikel Japp, Bryan Adams

1. "Nowhere to Run" Stanley 4:32
2. "Partners in Crime" Stanley, Mitchell


Thank goodness this utter crap exists to show us where KISS was with Adam Mitchell, Bryan Adams, Mike Japp

Thank goodness for Vinnie to come in and set the tone & direction with all the songs he wrote for that album. Without Vinnie, you'd have utter pap.

Thankfully Bob Kulick is on record talking about how lost Gene and Paul were. They weren't confident at all. They had no idea what they really wanted.

But if some want to "pretend" Gene and Paul had a clue, good for them! If some want to ignore how lost Gene and Paul were after LIU until Revenge, good for them.


Also, if Mike Japp, Bryan Adams or Adam Mitchell were so good-why are they completely absent on "Lick It Up"?

9 songs on LIU, Vinnie co-wrote. No outside writers at all on LIU.

Yet, that album at the time was hailed as one of their best ever. Amazing. 6 to 7 songs played off it live each night on the LIU tour.

Yes, it's funny, with the songs we know they had, why was Creatures only 9 songs? Back when I was a kid I wondered about that. Destroyer, only 9 songs? Why not at least one more?

[doublev2]

Majority of creatures was not written by Vinnie. I love it loud is a chant, ..I actually can't stand that song but I understood its a good Kiss chant . Vinnie to me only co wrote 3 top kiss songs ... I still love you, a million to one and exciter . The rest are good but not much different to stuff he didn't write on creatures or lick it up or animalize . I like most of lick it up but to me that's the best ones.

I really don't belive vv should have had song writing credit on eric Carr 's all hells breaking loose..I can't imagine what he wrote unless some lyrics

I remember a single for I Love It Loud off Creatures

I remember "Killer" being a single off I Love It Loud

I remember I Still Love you being a concert staple

I believe I Love It Loud was also the single from Alive III and the Monster Box Set.

I remember I Love It Loud being used to kick off Monday Night Football.




Then on the very next album 9 of the 10 songs by whom?

But sure, he wasn't setting the tone and direction for KISS


and Vinnie goes AWOL and Gene is calling him every single day trying to get him back for Animalize.
and Animalize rides COTN & LIU but then people realize its a pretty mediocre record full of filler.

Kiss goes from playing 6-7 songs off LIU to only doing 2 to support Animalize.
Only 2 songs got played more than 1/3 of the tour or more.

Vinnie had 5 songs played during the Animalize tour


Vinnie has 4 songs on the bulk of the Asylum Tour
HOF is pretty much the only song that survived off Animalize.
A Who cover song album gets played for 1/2 the tour
Coming in behind a Who cover song... Under the Gun and Creatures of the Night.


Off Asylum, two songs are pretty much all that get played live.


Without Vinnie, carrying the load its pretty easy to see how far Gene and Paul fell. Their new material just wasn't cutting it at all.


But remember, some still doesn't think Vinnie was the driving force.

[doublev2]

I don't believe for one second Gene wanted Vinnie back after lick it up.

[Luxor]

Vinnie got a ton of love from Kerrang and all the music magazines. They sure loved Vinnie.

[doublev2]

That's true . Kerrang loved vinnie vinvent Invasion. Don't forget you pay for advertising in kerrang you get good reviews.. sorry to say but that said he did and deservedly. They actually loved asg and marks singing on it as well as stick it to ya.
Kerrang definitely were responsible for vinnie being more popular in Europe than USA.

Vinnie got a ton of love from Kerrang and all the music magazines. They sure loved Vinnie.

[VVArchives]

I don't believe for one second Gene wanted Vinnie back after lick it up.

Of course you don't. Big surprise there! Gene calling Vinnie everyday for over 90 days trying to get him back and confirmed by Hirsh but YOU don't believe it. Big shock!

You don't believe Invasion videos in rotation on MTV even though Billboard says otherwise. Big shock.

You don't believe VVI helped break Slaughter even though 2 executives from Chrysalis are on record saying VVI did that. Again Big Shock.

You couldn't believe LA Guns was opening for Vinnie, even though after they were booted, they went home broke and they couldn't pick up any other tour because nobody wanted them. Again Big Shock.

VVI was in countless magazine after magazine in the US and you act like nobody was buying those magazines or knew about them. Again, Big Shock!

You make up about Kerrang only covering Invasion because supposedly all these paid ads. There were hardly ever any Invasion ads in Kerrang and Dante and others had loved VInnie and supported him since the Creatures days but you'd rather make up stuff. Big shock

Go back to making up Paul declaring bankruptcy in 2004. Odd why GeneBaby never calls you out for anything you make up

[VVArchives]

Majority of creatures was not written by Vinnie. I love it loud is a chant, ..I actually can't stand that song but I understood its a good Kiss chant . Vinnie to me only co wrote 3 top kiss songs ... I still love you, a million to one and exciter . The rest are good but not much different to stuff he didn't write on creatures or lick it up or animalize . I like most of lick it up but to me that's the best ones.

I really don't belive vv should have had song writing credit on eric Carr 's all hells breaking loose..I can't imagine what he wrote unless some lyrics

Since without VInnie and Paul, Eric never would have had a completed song. But since YOU don't believe he deserved a writing credit on it. Wow. Big Surprise! Big shock!

[VVArchives]

That's true . Kerrang loved vinnie vinvent Invasion. Don't forget you pay for advertising in kerrang you get good reviews.. sorry to say but that said he did and deservedly. They actually loved asg and marks singing on it as well as stick it to ya.
Kerrang definitely were responsible for vinnie being more popular in Europe than USA.

Tell us Vinnie hater how many paid ads VVI had in Kerrang. Knock yourself out.

And Vinnie was not more popular in Europe than the US. Again, total made up stuff from you with no basis in reality.

The fact is Kerrang was a fan of Vinnie's from his time in Creatures forward.

They gave Invasion and ASG glowing reviews because they were great records.

Hell, even a former Kiss producer, Kenny Kerner, compared the first Invasion album to the first Led Zep album. Next, you'll falsely claim he was paid off to say that too. Advertising? Right! SMH