What if Vinnie Vincent Invasion had continued?

[Lord12starkl]

Vinnie signs an 8 album & 4 million dollar deal with Chrysalis somwhere around 1983-1985. Let's say in an alternate timeline that Vinnie is a good teamplayer in his own band and everything goes well and then they make the 1st and the 2nd album being released in it's actual dates (1986 & 1988), anyway things are going good with the band since Vinnie is on a good behaviour and then they work and release the third album proabably in 1990 (i assume that because there was a two year gap between the 1st album and the 2nd album) how the third album does we don't know maybe it's a success or a modest success or a failure. Either way now it's the early 90's and Vinnie Vincent Invasion has released three albums (1986, 1988 & 1990) and there is still five more albums to go (since it's an 8 album deal).

Let's say at this point it's 1991 or 1992, would Vinnie Vincent Invasion been able to complete and release the rest of the remaining albums in their contract with Chrysalis or would they have been dropped out of their label due to the rise and success of grunge & other new music making it hard for 80's bands to compete against that? Or would the Vinnie Vincent Invasion try their best to go on and survive even without their label and hopefully trying to find another one? Maybe Chrysalis would have dropped the invasion long ago some time after their third release due to poor sales and some other factors.

What would have happen with the invasion in the 90's?

[Genebaby]

If Vinnie was more normal and a team player as you say then hopefully the second album would have built more good momentum during the touring and promotion phase instead of disintegration.

This would have set the scene for the third ablum to be quite successful, until the Grunge movement hit.

That might have been a problem, but it does depend on the band wether they might have been dropped, which did happen.

Still, the Vinnie we are talking about here, would have pulled himself up by his bootstraps and gotten on with things another way if need be, so there is so much possibility.

[beano]

What would have happen with the invasion in the 90's?

It was called Slaughter, was it not?

[Genebaby]

Yes, Slaughter showed how with some decent (they weren't great) songs and a good vibe and band spirit that success was possible. VVI should have been that successful, easily, with much better material it should have happened. Vinnie stood in the way of that kind of success unfortunately.

[aeroflott]

I think the distinct sound of VVI was too "out there" to have survived the 90s.

It would have been possible to hibernate VVI over this time (as the likes of Ratt did), and then make some form of comeback - but even now as a legacy act, VVI just wouldn't work. Warrant, Dokken, Great White etc can earn a crust these days as they were more main stream and radio friendly.

As much as I remain a VVI fan, it was what it was and very much of its time. As an ongoing, profitable concern, I just can't see it.

Could anyone really see a reformed VVI making a go of it today? I can't.

[Genebaby]

Well yes, for VVI it's a very different proposition than Warrant, Dokken, Great White etc as they did have a lot more mainstream success and are more well known. VVI is still a smaller, fringe band. Those that know, know, but there isn't the same recognition as so many other bands.

Nothing is impossible, and there is a market for VVI, albeit a fairly small one, so it would be either get back out there on your own in smaller places, or get onto a bigger tour as an opening act.

The main obstacle to any of this is Vinnie himself, and he's really good at it, been doing it for over 30 years.

It was good to see so many 80's bands that broke up/gave up in the 90's come back again when the interest was back. And the interest has been back for a LONG time now.

[shramiac]

Gunge (yeah I know how I spelt it!) would have swallowed him up sadly. So many "pretty boy" bands just faded away. Even Skid Row who'd just put out the awesome and heavy, Slave to the Grind. So much energy on that album.

[pullitt]

They'd turn into a fusion band and tour jazz festivals sharing the stage with Frank Gambale and Allan Holdsworth.

[Luxor]

It did continue. Just in a better form. Guitarmageddon (or whatever you want to call it) sure sounds like the natural continuation of that glorious first album.

[Genebaby]

It will be nice to get to hear it properly

[beano]

It did continue. Just in a better form.

Slaughter

[Genebaby]

Slaughter was deinitley more successfull and more popular (for a time) than VVI, but their biggest album, the first one, is so sweet and commercial, it really is pop metal. Which is cool, but the lyrics are hard to like after a while, and then it went downhill from there.

They were great to their fans as well, they were great guys in that respect, they really did a lot to reach out. A friend here who was a big KISS collector, and as such was into VVI and Slaughter stuff got some personal messages from them after writing, back when Stick It To Ya came out. I was impressed.

[VVArchives]

If Vinnie was more normal and a team player as you say then hopefully the second album would have built more good momentum during the touring and promotion phase instead of disintegration.

This would have set the scene for the third ablum to be quite successful, until the Grunge movement hit.

That might have been a problem, but it does depend on the band wether they might have been dropped, which did happen.

Still, the Vinnie we are talking about here, would have pulled himself up by his bootstraps and gotten on with things another way if need be, so there is so much possibility.

I disagree completely. You are talking about 3 different heads at Chrysalis when Vinnie was there.

Why not blame Vinnie's incompetent manager for lying to Chrysalis that Robert was signed? Look at the problems that lie caused.

Look how hugely successful "Vinnie Vincent Invasion" debut was. A huge 29 weeks on BIllboards charts with only 1 single/video. KISS was lucky to stay on 29 weeks with 3 singles & videos. Vinnie was kicking their butt. 23 of those weeks was in the Top 90 on Billboard.

After that huge success, in come new people to screw things up.

Who wasn't a Team Player?

Why not ask, what would have happened if ASG came out when it was scheduled to originally? None of the "meltdown" would have happened.

Ashes To Ashes would have been the lead off single/video (beating Kingdom Come's "Get It On").

Vinnie wouldn't have had all that down time to go through auditioning 50 managers to replace Sewitt.

Vinnie would have been opening for Aerosmith "Permanent Vacation"

Instead, what happened? They lost major opening spot with Aerosmith.

"Get It On" blew up on MTV and "Ashes" got pushed aside

All that down time lead to infighting etc. It also lead to the label getting Mark/Dana to go behind Vinnie's back and stab him. Dana is a POS who edited out solos behind Vinnie's back as he was a lapdog for the label at that point. Talk about non-team players.

And the label screwed up one thing after another.

ASG ccme out in May, but you didn't see "That Time Of Year" come out until 2nd week of July.

Then TTOY didn't get any momentum because it was soon replaced by "Love Kills". Because that had to come out when it did because of the movie promotion.

Of course, David Snowden lied about acting like he saw the video play on their bus which was bs. David had already been banned since early July. At at that point, it didn't matter what the video said, because Vinnie had already had it out with them in July wanting out.


And Chrysalis was about bankrupt by the time Vinnie left. Certainly did get lucky Chyrsalis was bought before their debut came out. And they could spend a fortune helping "break them" with VVI fans help.

Some act like it was odd, Vinnie tried to get Chrysalis to sign him again after he had left, but that was with the new team who came in after they were bought out.

Who knows what would have happened if Enigma didn't run out of money. Vinnie was all set to tour, he was planning out music videos. You name it. That lineup would have been far stronger than the VVI lineup.

And that album certainly is Vinnie's strongest album. And it doesn't show the juvenile production Dana brought to ASG.


And sure Slaughter had a good run with 1 album beneffiting from the Vinnie Vincent years and all the hype. And of course, being on the KISS tour before all those VV fans sure helped as well.

But the Wild Life was a huge drop in sales. 3M to 650K or so. And they were soon dropped by Chrysalis.

I do think if Chrysalis had not screwed up ASG like they did, it would have easily done 3M+

[VVArchives]

They were great to their fans as well, they were great guys in that respect, they really did a lot to reach out.

Vinnie was great to the fans. He would write 3-5 page letters or more to fans. He really went out of his way.

and Mark/Dana knew how to fake sincerity big time.

[Genebaby]

All of those things may have happened, but a different artist would have taken it differently and probably still be around/valid today.

Have you read Bobby's book? He's a straight shooter and dependable, working with Vinnie was not the best, that's what I meant about team player, he wasn't a nurturing, confident band leader, he was a paranoid and controlling one.

Vinnie's track record speaks for itself unfortunately. It's not 91/92 and we are speculating on what Vinnie's next great move in his comeback will be. History has happened and Vinnie did fuck all with this amazing talents. I can acknowledge his talents, and also his failings. It kills most of us here that Vinnie squandered his talent after the meltdown of VVI to produce an unfinished sounding EP with an 80's picture and then even worse, his next offical release, Speedball Jamm, ugh....just buy it for $10 and move on with your life.

Notwithstanding everything that happened around him, Vinnie's behaviours and actions speak volumes, same as they do since his actual "comeback" over three years ago. There is not a lot of depth here, just more of those empty promises.

[VVArchives]

Yeah, I read Bobby's book. Alot of the stuff I had heard from Bobby before. And maybe he mentioned her to me one time...ages ago... Marianne Williamson.

If he did.... I didn't know who she was. But when I read his book, I couldn't believe she was his guru/mentor.

https://marianne.com/

She was the crazy lady in the US Democrat primary field in 2016 Presidential election. I was like, Bobby you are taking advice from her?!


I would have loved to have known Vinnie prior to KISS and see how much his time with them really f'd him up. I could these days you could say Vinnie wasn't a "players coach". Vinnie knew what he wanted and expected and if not delivered he would tell ya.

I do think it speaks volumes that Bobby didn't go off with Mark and Dana. And that Bobby was hanging with Vinnie in the early 90's. I wish Bobby could have played on the GFH/Guitarmageddon tracks.

[Genebaby]

It seems Vinnie has told us he doesn't like drummers, which explains the shit show on the first album and what we got on the Eurphoria EP. Hopefully anything that ever gets released does feature Andre and isn't replaced by a machine. It doesn't bode well for the future though, if there was to be anything new recorded. Vinnie might thing drum machines are the way to go, but just about everybody else is the opposite.

I am not worried about Bobby and Marianne, Bobby is a level headed guy.

I don't think KISS fucked Vinnie up too much, he had a lot of his traits even then. Going out with Eric, forgetting his wallet.....