Bigger rip off - Kiss concerts or Vinnie Creatures Fest?

[Luxor]

At least Vinnie got out there and played at CF. He wasn't miming. He played. And that's what people came to see.

Kiss fans go to see people actually sing. They don't go to see Paul play rhythm guitar. He does the bulk of the songs in the setlist. And he's miming to all of them.



Gene said it best previously:
When previously speaking of his opposition to using pre-recorded material, Simmons told Australia's News.com, "I have a problem when you charge $100 to see a live show and the artist uses backing tracks. It's like the ingredients in food — if the first ingredient on the label is sugar, that's at least honest."

He continued, "It should be on every ticket — you're paying $100, 30 to 50 percent of the show is [on] backing tracks, and they'll sing sometimes, sometimes they'll lip sync. At least be honest. It's not about backing tracks; it's about dishonesty."


Not only does KISS not put that on their tickets, they lie about when confronted today. They charge $1000 for front row when Paul is miming all his songs. Sure some diehards know the con and still go. But the vast majority of the public doesn't know and they are being ripped off. Should TM refund all those people's money? Should TM have to return all the money KISS has gotten on End Of The Road?

Should Doc, Paul and Gene have to answer for this? And if they continue to lie what should happen?

[Genebaby]

If Gene said that then it would be very nice if everything they are doing was known to everyone prior to booking tickets. It would be totally normal to assume many of the people that go to see them are unaware, though fans like me will know. I won't be telling my kids when we see them, I'll just let them enjoy and see if they noticed.

Fair call to say with Vinnie at CF the ticket holders should have been told, it is a rip-off in the same way as you're describing about KISS. Possibly a bigger rip off as he didn't perform anything like advertised, and what he did do was to a poor standard. So for these reasons Vinnie would be the bigger rip off. Also because the people who don't know Paul is miming, may not notice, if they are that kind of casual listener, but everybody at CF was confused by what Vinnie was doing and all knew that it wasn't right, while waiting to see if things improved. At the KISS shows the show is peformeced as expected.

[VVArchives]

So you're saying, if people don't know they are getting screwed no big deal? As long as people are blissfully unaware its ok?

I guess that's one way to look at it.

I haven't seen KISS in ages. I would imagine a good portion going don't even know its not Ace and Peter there.

[Genebaby]

A LOOONG time ago I met my old bass player, who in the late 90's was in a KISS tribute with me. Enough of a fan to be in this tribute but also so casual that when I talked about either the upcoming shows, or the shows we has just seen, he wasn't aware even then that it was not Ace and Peter.

So yeah, some people just aren't aware of even that! Let alone lip syncing, which if done well is hard to spot.

Paul (and Gene) should be ashamed of themselves as they were caught out lip syncing just the other day, and previously Gene had said this:

When previously speaking of his opposition to using pre-recorded material, Simmons told Australia's News.com, "I have a problem when you charge $100 to see a live show and the artist uses backing tracks. It's like the ingredients in food — if the first ingredient on the label is sugar, that's at least honest."

He continued, "It should be on every ticket — you're paying $100, 30 to 50 percent of the show is [on] backing tracks, and they'll sing sometimes, sometimes they'll lip sync. At least be honest. It's not about backing tracks; it's about dishonesty."

So that is not cool. While they are being dishonest they are doing it to provide the show people are expecting. They should definitely disclose it or continue to tarnish their legacy, which they seem proud of, by duping paying fans.

In an even worse way Vinnie duped his fans. It wasn't the show of shows with all the songs etc, and it wasn't great playing either, let's be honest. It's out their for the world to see.

[puffin]

What's the timestamp of the lip syncing?

[Genebaby]

It's at about the 16 second mark.

I was reading about it before I saw the video. They were saying how Eric stuffed the ending of Detroit there and then it was out of sync.

Basically look for words coming out of Paul's mouth when he's not at the mic. It has happened before.

I do find it interesting that he seems to have pre-recorded himself at what is probably his recent best. They aren't trying to use a vocal from better live years like the 90s, he was in top form for Alive 3, so it "seems" like current day Paul is singing. I guess this makes it seem more realistic, while obviously gives his voice enough of a rest that he's not killing himself to get through the tour.

It's pretty sad, and like the stuff Vinnie does, is tarnishing the KISS legacy. Telling us Peter can't play when he can't sing is so wrong. Who does he think he's fooling?

[pullitt]

People waiting in lines for hours, getting the coronavirus, then rushed in with security grabbing them and knocking devices out of their hands, then reducing the promised show to three songs played without a band and two of them without live vocals, with several false starts. Vinnie's a big organizational ripoff. Kiss is not. What they charge is up to them, but it's up to the people how to feel about the treatment.

[VVArchives]

KIss has been lip-synching (well Paul) the entire End of the Road tour. Even KISS lover Eddie Trunk rips them over this. Its a rip off to the fans and a slap in the face.

They should have just done the shows without Paul singing any songs. But they'd rather take the fans money and give them a fake.

[Genebaby]

All that might be true about KISS, but Vinnie is the WAAAAAAY bigger rip off, it's a fact.

[Luxor]

All that might be true about KISS, but Vinnie is the WAAAAAAY bigger rip off, it's a fact.

How so?

When you consider KISS' complete history of rip offs. Millions upon millions. No telling how big the amount could be.

Then you think of all the fans being ripped off with recorded lead vocals.

All the merchandise never delivered people paid for from KOL.

The Dubai scandal alone ripped off thousands of people $1000 each.

and its not like they just ripped Vinnie off royalties. No telling how many people they did that to.

[Luxor]

People waiting in lines for hours, getting the coronavirus, then rushed in with security grabbing them and knocking devices out of their hands, then reducing the promised show to three songs played without a band and two of them without live vocals, with several false starts. Vinnie's a big organizational ripoff. Kiss is not. What they charge is up to them, but it's up to the people how to feel about the treatment.

Are you talking about the same KISS whose security guards broke cameras, roughed up people, took film out of cameras and all that? Are you talking about that same KISS?

[Genebaby]

People waiting in lines for hours, getting the coronavirus, then rushed in with security grabbing them and knocking devices out of their hands, then reducing the promised show to three songs played without a band and two of them without live vocals, with several false starts. Vinnie's a big organizational ripoff. Kiss is not. What they charge is up to them, but it's up to the people how to feel about the treatment.

Are you talking about the same KISS whose security guards broke cameras, roughed up people, took film out of cameras and all that? Are you talking about that same KISS?

Are you talking about 70's era KISS, when Big John would protect the bands identities? Like, what?