The Vinnie Vincent Forum - Where Freedom Rocks!

I am new. From Arizona, 42 years old, and a vinnie vincent fan from lick it up era KISS. I am a drama AVOIDER so if you like drama, stay the hell away from me. Im a bassist/guitarist and hack vocalist. Metal, Rock, Blues, Punk, Rockabilly. While I am still somewhat a KISS fan, what they did to Vinnie, and OTHERS, total shit. Glad to make your acquaintances!

Howdy

Funny how your name means " one who stirs up trouble " yet you avoid drama.

Happy to see you here, enjoy all the good and the bad

shramiac wrote:Happy to see you here, enjoy all the good and the bad

I definitely will enjoy the good. Thanks for the welcome!

poserboy71 wrote:Howdy

Funny how your name means " one who stirs up trouble " yet you avoid drama.

Nothing wrong in stirring a pot, and watching it go... If you knew me personally you'd understand why I chose that... Im a mischievous 6 foot 9 monster of a guy. former roadie and musician.

Welcome here and we look forward to your posts. Poserboy here has also done some roadie work with some big acts

roustabout23 wrote:

shramiac wrote:Happy to see you here, enjoy all the good and the bad

I definitely will enjoy the good. Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, that's what I meant! I didn't mean enjoy the bad!

Slayer wrote:Welcome here and we look forward to your posts. Poserboy here has also done some roadie work with some big acts

Unfortunately.

Hello. Let us know your take on what kiss did to vinnie? I don't see that they did anything wrong but always good to see different angles

From a selfish business perspective, Kiss thought they were being smart and frugal. G&P were trying to buy expensive steak and lobster but pay dollar menu prices. They fucked themselves and the fans and have lived on their past(73-83) with little acknowledgement of other albums ,since they put the makeup back on. They couldn't keep Vinnie's tunes out of the set list.
VINdication indeed !!!!

If they would have paid Vinnie his worth, Kiss would've sold tons of records .
Instead , we were subjected to copycat music with little personality.

poserboy71 wrote:From a selfish business perspective, Kiss thought they were being smart and frugal. G&P were trying to buy expensive steak and lobster but pay dollar menu prices. They fucked themselves and the fans and have lived on their past(73-83) with little acknowledgement of other albums ,since they put the makeup back on. They couldn't keep Vinnie's tunes out of the set list.
VINdication indeed !!!!

If they would have paid Vinnie his worth, Kiss would've sold tons of records .
Instead , we were subjected to copycat music with little personality.

And they would have achieved a higher level of respect for their music from a musician stand point (peers) because Vinnie was the best musician ever to be in Kiss

Agreed.

Do you really think it would have been possible to keep vinnie knowing what we know about him? Plus is value would have been huge in vinnies own mind. Sorry to disagree but vv is totally impossible to deal with.and yes would have been great to keep him but I see no way it coukd have happened even on a lot more money.

Vinnie even apologised to kiss in the 87 steve rosen interview stating he was immature. He said he had changed since leaving kiss.

doublev2 wrote:Hello. Let us know your take on what kiss did to vinnie? I don't see that they did anything wrong but always good to see different angles

So, KISS needed a new lead player. One that could help them get out of a songwriting rut. Someone with some flash, some balls and some flashy playing to compete in the Guitar God 80s. And, VV fit that bill perfectly. I think that since he had already been in the shadows, as a session player on COTN (my favorite KISS album) and as such, They brought him onboard with a similar deal as far as pay.

They went through some lean years along the way, and probably considered it an initiation for VV to work his way "up in the organization" or some such. But, as always, KISS wanted to do it on the cheap so Gene and Paul could keep the lions share of the proceeds. If I remember right, Ive read/heard that VV was getting 2000 a week, and staying in motel 6 while Gene, Paul and Eric were staying at the Westin. And I think VV probably expected (rightly so somewhat) that he had Arrived, and that he would be travelling/lodging/living like one would expect in The Hottest Band In The World...
I think Gene is pretty close in saying that VV is the type of guy to BLOW it at the presentation of the Keys to the City. I think VV overestimated the clout he held. I think Gene and Paul took advantage of the fact that VV was so eager to Arrive. They underpaid him, undervalued his playing and song writing skill. VV reignited KISS, they went for several years on the momentum his playing brought them. I think VV also stubbornly stuck to his guns rather than compromise and tone down the pyrotechnics. That LIU and the next 2 or 3 albums sound so similar sonically, and musically speaks volumes for his influence...

None of this I know for sure, this is only my take on what I've read in print, heard in various interviews, and sorted out by myself.
Bottom line: KISS screwed VV. VV screwed himself. VV tried to grow into the role. Revenge... KISS gave him another shot.. VV gave KISS another shot... and it went south again. Hopefully VV actually gets what his writing efforts were worth. Something tells me it probably didn't work out that way.

I don't think anyone "wronged" each other so much as Completely Failed to Understand Each Other.

Good post. Thanks.

poserboy71 wrote:From a selfish business perspective, Kiss thought they were being smart and frugal. G&P were trying to buy expensive steak and lobster but pay dollar menu prices. They fucked themselves and the fans and have lived on their past(73-83) with little acknowledgement of other albums ,since they put the makeup back on. They couldn't keep Vinnie's tunes out of the set list.
VINdication indeed !!!!

If they would have paid Vinnie his worth, Kiss would've sold tons of records .
Instead , we were subjected to copycat music with little personality.

If KISS had given proper credit for what VV was able to put on the table for them, and given him the true value of that, VV might have been in the band for the years that Bruce was. I honestly think they WANTED vinnie to be a permanent full member but they werent willing to give up their extra percentages when Ace and Peter were forced out.

roustabout23 wrote:

poserboy71 wrote:From a selfish business perspective, Kiss thought they were being smart and frugal. G&P were trying to buy expensive steak and lobster but pay dollar menu prices. They fucked themselves and the fans and have lived on their past(73-83) with little acknowledgement of other albums ,since they put the makeup back on. They couldn't keep Vinnie's tunes out of the set list.
VINdication indeed !!!!

If they would have paid Vinnie his worth, Kiss would've sold tons of records .
Instead , we were subjected to copycat music with little personality.

If KISS had given proper credit for what VV was able to put on the table for them, and given him the true value of that, VV might have been in the band for the years that Bruce was. I honestly think they WANTED vinnie to be a permanent full member but they werent willing to give up their extra percentages when Ace and Peter were forced out.

Exactly.

poserboy71 wrote:From a selfish business perspective, Kiss thought they were being smart and frugal. G&P were trying to buy expensive steak and lobster but pay dollar menu prices. They fucked themselves and the fans and have lived on their past(73-83) with little acknowledgement of other albums ,since they put the makeup back on. They couldn't keep Vinnie's tunes out of the set list.
VINdication indeed !!!!

If they would have paid Vinnie his worth, Kiss would've sold tons of records .
Instead , we were subjected to copycat music with little personality.

Yes, but we got VV Invasion out of this situation. I think that's a better outcome.

puffin wrote:

poserboy71 wrote:From a selfish business perspective, Kiss thought they were being smart and frugal. G&P were trying to buy expensive steak and lobster but pay dollar menu prices. They fucked themselves and the fans and have lived on their past(73-83) with little acknowledgement of other albums ,since they put the makeup back on. They couldn't keep Vinnie's tunes out of the set list.
VINdication indeed !!!!

If they would have paid Vinnie his worth, Kiss would've sold tons of records .
Instead , we were subjected to copycat music with little personality.

Yes, but we got VV Invasion out of this situation. I think that's a better outcome.

To an extent it is. We basically were teased by the incredible first album, got a watered down second album, then scattered moments of brilliance for the next 26 years.

I think vv staying in kiss would have been better than vvi if vv was allowed at least as much say as liu.