Sped up solos?

Portillo · Post by **Portillo** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:45 pm

I heard that Vinnies solos were sped up in the studio so they sound faster. Is that true or is it just a rumor that was made up?

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:29 pm

I don't think its fully decided. I would not bet aganst vv cheating people.

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:33 pm

I think it may have happened. If you try to play a guitar against the album it will be noticeable as you won't be in the right tuning if something has changed. I think someone did that on "some" songs and they worked out they had been sped up. This is just from memory.

Not sure what was to be gained from that as Vinnie was able to play it all live anyhow.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:43 pm

He tinkers with everything so I am told. He also works on songs forever.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:53 am

I think all musicians tinker with stuff like that in the studio. The product has to be "perfect" for a studio product and that sometimes means doing what it takes. Hell, even RUSH has admitted to this kind of stuff.

Performing live it doesn't have to be dead-on perfect, but it has to be played at the right speed...or even faster. Vinnie played those solos live but probably had to record them a little slower to get each note exactly as he wanted.

Post by **Streetbeat** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:09 am

Boyz are gonna rock is sped up , not sure how much but it is for sure !

birnie · Post by **birnie** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:22 am

When playing along (ya know.... cause i can,,,pfffft)
Boyz was exactly half step up, (F tuning).....what that equates to in speed % i don't know.
Why he would do it???? I don't know
Was it sped up or played in that key??? don't know???

Pretty sure the rest of the album was in regular E tuning though.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:32 am

I vote no. Mainly because no one involved in the making of the albums said there was. I can't recall Mark or Dana saying he did and if anyone wanted to bad mouth him it would have been them.

Although, the "Zakk Wylde" pentatonic licks in the outro solo on Boyz freak me out!!!

birnie · Post by **birnie** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:40 am

It was definately rumoured around the Boyz song because of the tuning.
Nothing to do with Mark or All Systems Go

....and, i just think people didn't believe that speed was possible at that time.....
I mean come on, what did you think the 1st time you heard Animal's outro !
Well pretty much anything on that album, that sort of playing had not been heard before WHOAH !

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:49 am

i could see him speeding up for effect but not because he couldn't play it fast.

Portillo · Post by **Portillo** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:38 pm

Thats for the answers everyone. Lots of good info.

ankh · Post by **ankh** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:07 am

sometimes recording speed- at the time of analog machines especially- was altered for sonic purposes,to enhance the overall sound or the vocal track.Plenty of examples in the rock world.

I think , with youtube clips of VVI playng live, you can decide for yourself if Vinnie was able or not to reach that speed.Or ,also the second part of his instructional video(still don't understand why the first part was in playback, done in such a poor way, too).Consider also that the accents that Vinnie was putting using chicken picking were also a factor in some solos sounding so fast.

Vdog · Post by **Vdog** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:19 am

On the playback bits of metaltech he has some trouble keeping up to my eyes. I always wondered.

tukoztukoz · Post by **tukoztukoz** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:05 am

I think he sped up his solos AND rythm guitars not for speed - he didn't need it because he was very fast as we all know- , but to get an agressive, sharp, clear and nervous sound you'll never get without speeding up. That's what I noticed years ago with a four track or an eight track (fostex).

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:31 pm

My understanding was that this was done on Invasion for sonic reasons only. With his manic use of the Floyd Rose he would have been busting strings turned sharp in my opinion so this fact supports increasing the tape speed

birnie · Post by **birnie** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:38 pm

Yeah, this one really baffles me as to why do it in the 1st place.
Boys, I think, was the only one in the raised tuning. A# instead of A
In terms of Hz, A=220hz, A#=233hz
About 5% faster if that's how they did it, record and speed up...would you even notice at those blistering speeds?
Maybe they recorded it in that tuning?
Weird just weird.
Would have perfectly fine in regular tuning, and probably easier to sing.

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:56 pm

The Offspring have a song, Gone Away, it's really good, that was recorded higher too. Not sure why they did it, just made it annoying to learn years ago. Now I have software that would make it easier.

VincentH · Post by **VincentH** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:05 am

Aren't DragonForce notorious for speeding up guitar tracks in the studio? Even if Vinnie did speed up his tracks in post-production it's fairly subtle in comparison to DragonForce.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:28 am

Ugh! Dragonforce!

VincentH · Post by **VincentH** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:15 am

shramiac wrote:Ugh! Dragonforce!

I've never really understood the appeal of DragonForce. That being said, I'm not into power metal in general.

mrblitz · Post by **mrblitz** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:58 am

herman li even jokes about having his solos sped up. btw, from what little i've seen/heard, those guys - dragonforce - seem like a drunken mess in live situations.

tukoztukoz · Post by **tukoztukoz** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:48 pm

I've just listened to the first invasion album this morning, and now I think V'solos are not sped up at all...
It would be great to try the gear he had at that time, or something approaching it. Too bad Vinnie doesnt promote some VV pedal instead of shirts!

Possio · Post by **Possio** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:59 pm

I think it has been mentioned before but you can actually slow down the tape in the studio After you have tracked the basic rythm-tracks at regular tuning (concert pitch 440) so rythm tracks are now at E flat, slowed down.Then: re-tune your guitar to E-flat, then track/overdub your solos to a slowed-down tape..somewhat easier.. when done, bring the whole shebang (tape) back to regular speed, and , voila ! the solos are now faster then you actually played them, BUT, still in concert pitch...sooo easy...

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:02 pm

I just spoke at length with the man who was in control of both VVI recordings and he said that Vinnie's solos were NOT sped up. Tapes were not slowed down, etc...

Possio · Post by **Possio** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:09 pm

Not saying this is how it def WAS done, I was not there in studio, but this is the preferred technique and it has been used many times for instruments and vocals, the trick is not to overdo it..just use it ever so slightly so it wont be too noticeable..
You have to ask Dana Strum ( if he´s willing to talk?) or whoever handled the tracking and tape-operation...I dunno..
My guess is "Boys" has speed up tape but thats pretty obvious.. and not using the slowdown thing..

Possio · Post by **Possio** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:17 pm

Ok, cool! So, who did you talk with ? please share! VVI is one of my all time favorite Hard Rock albums, Id love to get more inside info...theres already quite alot of info out there,as we all know, but anyway.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:45 am

Possio wrote: You have to ask...
My guess is "Boys" has speed up tape but ...

Let's just say that a blonde haired fella said that "BAGR" was NOT sped up .

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:53 pm

What is BAGR tuned to Rick? Something seems off on this song and some others. Doesn't seem like typical tuning keys but I haven't played to the album in years

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:03 pm

I will have to listen to it. The only things that I can think of since one of the main guys in the band said that it wasn't sped up or slowed down is that a capo may have been used or that the guitars were tuned by ear and they just went for it. .

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:24 pm

It's turned higher than standard, which The Offspring have done.

Possibly to let Robert scream even higher.

Possio · Post by **Possio** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:08 pm

Ok, well.. Im still sticking with my point, "Boys" was sped up close to a half step. meaning, the Master Tape during the mastering process was sped up ever so slightly to give that first song an "over the top" sound, maybe they thoght it was recorded a little too slow for an opening song and just liked it better played (from tape) faster? nothing wrong with that...just saying. I wouldnt put much stock in what Dana has to say, I mean - who tunes the guitars/bass to slightly below E sharp ?
Especially with a floyd and im not convinced the strobe-tuners (most likely) used in the studio were very accurate at a that kind of e-sharp setting,? ..Also, playing Metal with a capo, not very appropriate, from my experience, doesn work very well once you start bending strings and attacking it quite hard,..This is just my opinion.
ABBA and Prince and many many others have manipulated the tape for Your listening-pleasure over the years, nothing wrong with that..

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:20 am

That being said, try to play in the same tuning to early VH records. As for believing the two people that I spoke with, they were full of compliments toward Vinnie and have nothing to gain or lose from their truth. It is what it is. Just the word of the producer of both albums. ; )

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:03 pm

With Vinnie's manic use of the tremolo I would expect that he would be snapping strings left and right if he actually tuned to E Sharp. I don't know the truth so I will yield but this fact is in support of the long held rumor of the tape being sped up. The rumor that we speak of goes back 30 years and came from multiple sources and is believable. In support of Rick he spoke directly with Dana who I believe would really know and would have little to gain from withholding the truth as he knew it. Dana is no Vinnie Fan so I can't really see him protecting a Vinnie Secret at this point in time either.

Why is the tone and tuning off from what we would expect on BAGR? I have no idea but I think that we all agree that it is off .................

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:11 pm

poserboy71 wrote:I will have to listen to it. The only things that I can think of since one of the main guys in the band said that it wasn't sped up or slowed down is that a capo may have been used or that the guitars were tuned by ear and they just went for it. .

One thing in support of this argument is Vinnie's use of a non fine tuning Floyd Rose with a locking nut. Many guitars will tune sharp once the locking nut is tightened so if the strings were in tune with each other perhaps Dana tuned his bass to Vinnie's Sharp Tuning? It is still hard to believe that he wouldn't be busting strings.

I will yield to Vinnie but if I chose to use a Floyd Rose without fine tuners I wouldn't use a locking nut so that I could tune as I was playing

Post by **Streetbeat** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:16 pm

He can play fast but that tape WAS SPED UP, i can hear it.
it has that bit of a Chipmunk feel to it, it's on the right key but it was sped up for sure.
Maybe he could play on the same speed, but he wanted that knife sharp sound and that was made by this.
i have no doubt about it.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:43 pm

The producer's word is good enough for me.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:36 pm

Heard Mike Orlando's pentatonics? Sounds chipmunky too but it ain't sped up.

Post by **Streetbeat** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:55 pm

No this is different

Possio · Post by **Possio** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:06 pm

That makes two of us, Streetbeat.
I love what I hear on the album,its great as a piece of "Rock Art" and have the utmost respect for the guys as musicians and all that, but somebody twisted the knob on the tape machine a bit for that song to make it "snappier" like mentioned,..
it is no big deal..Vinnies playing is fast enough for me, I really dig it..but it doesnt sound 100% natural on BAGR...

Post by **Streetbeat** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:09 pm

True ! it's not that he cannot play that fast, it was sped up for maybe giving that extra edge, same thing they did with old James Bond movies
or 60's pursuit on tv series, they were sped up to give them more action feel, it's not that they couldn't drive fast, it was done to
give the viewer the wow factor. It doesn't sound natural at all and i repeat, it's not that Vinnie couldn't play that fast.

Possio · Post by **Possio** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:16 pm

exactly, we are not talking about, hey- lets take "slowhand" Eric Clapton and turn him into Yngwie Malmsteen on record by manipulating the tape. ! right?.. the "wow" factor to the music is a really good description of the result of just a tad faster tape to something that was already pretty darn fast to begin with..no big deal. All Sys does Not strike me as having that sped up sound..and it is fast as hell still..

birnie · Post by **birnie** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:00 am

Drums have a certain tone too right?
Can someone check in on the drum sounds and hear if they're high too?

Post by **Streetbeat** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:04 am

i don't think Drums were sped up, they maybe sped down ...vinnie recorded the solo, then used the spedup guitar track only, not the drums.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:51 pm

14:00 minute mark

Dana talks about using tape speed for EFFECT.
That doesn't mean they did it. He says that they didn't cheat SO...

[youtube][/youtube]

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:15 pm

i think the drums got lost in the mix. Vinnie wanted the Def Leppard sound but just too many channels. I think Bobby was a touch disapointed with final mix as drums were supposedly amazing before everything mixed together.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:48 am

doublev2 wrote:i think the drums got lost in the mix. Vinnie wanted the Def Leppard sound but just too many channels. I think Bobby was a touch disapointed with final mix as drums were supposedly amazing before everything mixed together.

ALSO....

I did ask Dana if Vinnie wanted the records to sound like DL.
Dana responded that Vinnie didn't really have a say simply because Dana was the PRODUCER and was the one that was responsible for putting those sounds together.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:59 pm

Oooooooooooooooooooh
Wow. Makes sense but shit Dana claims he was producer. Shit.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:12 pm

I slowed Boyz down to A440 with Audacity and.......it's still bat shit, crazy fast! The song is only 15 seconds longer which works out to 3 seconds a minute longer, which is nothing.

https://soundcloud.com/warden-shram/vin ... gonna-rock

Post by **Streetbeat** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:28 pm

i think it's a bit slower but it's closer, wow how come Vinnie lost all this talent

Possio · Post by **Possio** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:48 pm

Thats what Im saying too, Slowing it down to 440, which Ive done also, makes it sound more right, but not much slower in terms of guitar playing/shredding, It still insanely fast..