Quiet Times at VV Forums

richiehaha · Post by **richiehaha** » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:02 am

When I first discovered this place, enthusiasm was high, people were energized and things looked promising for a solid return of the Ankh Warrior.
Needless to say, things didn't pan out the way many of us had hoped. I now wonder how many people will even read this. The everyday likes of Poserboy71, Jessica (aka Ankh Warrior) and many others are no longer heard from.

But I have a message for those left in this forum (many are probably occasional on-lookers, such as myself)…..
Stay safe and healthy and let's all come out on the other side of this, mostly intact.

Vinnie, if you are reading - know that I still appreciate what you brought to the Rock n Roll World. But more importantly, I hope you are staying well.

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:37 am

Nice message dude. There are quiet times, there are exciting times, and then the quiet times come back.

It's a good time to think and reflect on many things.

n3p · Post by **n3p** » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:54 am

I still lurk mainly, should contribute more really

Slowly going crazy from being stuck indoors though! Luckily it's allowed me some time go get reacquainted with my guitars

Hope you're all surviving well

aeroflott · Post by **aeroflott** » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:54 am

Interesting times indeed. As Genebaby mentions, it's certainly a time for reflection about the important things.

On a lighter note, with all this time on my hands, I'm revisiting a lot of old music I've not heard for years. One of the highlights is "Beau Nasty" - great stuff. Check it out:

Stay strong people!

teej · Post by **teej** » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:16 pm

I still visit but honestly I find very little to be positive about so I just say nothing

richiehaha · Post by **richiehaha** » Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:35 pm

True, both the real world and the VV Forums world don't offer a lot of positive news.

Here's to hoping that "This too shall pass."

Stay Well People!

Mikelangelo · Post by **Mikelangelo** » Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:02 pm

Yes, it's bit quiet, on the eastern front too. Actually, many forums that I wrote to, -are bit quiet. Sometimes there's a flood of messages and then quiet for a long time...

Post by **Genebaby** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:13 am

It is hard to be positive these days, when bad vibes are literally coming from Vinnie all the time since Atlanta and the promises made.

Before Vinnie came out, we could talk and speculate, with hope in our hearts. That hope is no longer there for Vinnie is among us and for the most part it's not great, so that kind of talk gets squashed.

We do have the music to discuss, musicial instruments, and our own stuff we wish to share with each other in these times.

DarrenD · Post by **DarrenD** » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:49 am

Forums of all hobbies, not just music related, have slowed down dramatically from what they once were. The old Kramer Forum shut down due to inactivity (although there is a new one, which is still relatively inactive). Cars forums, etc. it's the same thing. I was part of around 8+ forums, and they all slowed down.

Facebook groups have taken over forums. It's ok but not the same thing as the forum experience. There are more "casuals" on facebook and fewer people that know specifics on anything. The ones that do know the facts are often drowned out by 50 messages in three hours with questions. It's very different.

There's an "inner community" forums have the Facebook does not. It is what it is. I'm part of many Facebook groups and contribute, but it's definitely not the same experience.

Post by **Genebaby** » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:41 pm

Yes, the Facebook experience is nothing like a proper forum for knowledge and experience sharing.

Facebook is perhaps too easy, and as you mentioned, there are more casuals on there.

Information gets lost every day on Facebook, which is always here and easy to find.

The big plus for me to avoid Facebook is ownership. On Facebook you own nothing, they have all your data. Here, it's all safe and sound and I'm in control, so this is much preferred.

Of course, that comes with the added cost of time and some $$$, ha ha.

BengalWACO · Post by **BengalWACO** » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:51 am

I was a member of this group Legion and another group. I love Vinnie the guitar player, but they started blacking out faces of other members of bands he was in the shot with. I thought it was kinda shady and left because I didn't want to be affiliated with that level of fandom. I like being here because there are opinions of all sides which are listened and debated.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:13 am

BengalWACO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:51 am I was a member of this group Legion and another group. I love Vinnie the guitar player, but they started blacking out faces of other members of bands he was in the shot with. I thought it was kinda shady and left because I didn't want to be affiliated with that level of fandom. I like being here because there are opinions of all sides which are listened and debated.

Perfectly stated, no one is muzzled here!

aeroflott · Post by **aeroflott** » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:30 pm

BengalWACO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:51 am I was a member of this group Legion and another group. I love Vinnie the guitar player, but they started blacking out faces of other members of bands he was in the shot with. I thought it was kinda shady and left because I didn't want to be affiliated with that level of fandom. I like being here because there are opinions of all sides which are listened and debated.

It is absolutely ridiculous. There seems to be a good and bad list of people who can be pictured. Pictures of Eric Carr it seems can be posted, but Bobby, Mark and Dana not so. It's one thing to have a "no pics of these guys" rule in place (daft enough in itself), it's another to post pictures featuring them on and then black out their faces. Totally pointless - and frankly really insulting to fans. If you're a VV fan, you know who these guys are and their place in VV history, so why delete them?

Vinnie's story, good and bad, has got him to the place he's at now. It is all relevant and important.

As you say, I'm very uncomfortable being associated with that sort of nonsense.

Ronz · Post by **Ronz** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:59 pm

It's 2020, everyone and everything is quiet

Ronz

richiehaha · Post by **richiehaha** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:01 pm

True, it's 2020 and all is quiet. But with regards to Vinnie and his comeback, I'm not sure that the year has much to do with the quietness around here. Disappointment and surrender from optimism may be more of the reason. With that being said though, Rock n Roll as a genre is pretty much obsolete now. Has anyone heard what younger people listen to today? Sure ain't what I grew up with, smh.

Post by **Genebaby** » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:48 am

Here in Australia people love the 80's. 80's music, TV etc is very popular. There is even a a place called Club 88 Miles Per Hour, or Club 88 for short. Nothing but 80's music and memorabilia.

Imagine if the VVI could re-form and take off from where they left off. If only.....

Mikelangelo · Post by **Mikelangelo** » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:46 am

1980s gave us some great music!!! Those were goid times too!!!
I have to say that I truely wonder if today's kids can even read...

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:39 am

I can see online that many people cannot spell or write correctly, it's pretty sad.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:41 pm

Gen Z, the dumbest generation so far. The “trophy for everyone” policy has turned them into the know-it-all, know nothing generation.

TikTok, TikTok.

Post by **Genebaby** » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:18 pm

Yes, sadly. There is a generation of Biden's coming our way.

richiehaha · Post by **richiehaha** » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:08 pm

People in the States still appreciate all that the 80's gave us. But those people are pretty much the one who were teenagers during that decade (and some of their kids).

The music that most teenagers/young 20's people listen to today sounds NOTHING like the music of the 80's. I speak from experience as I have an 18 year old daughter who says to me "your music" sucks.

It's just the natural progression of life though....every generation is different from the last and will be different from the next. But history does repeat itself, so I hope I'm around to witness the "all things 80's" revival.

Post by **Genebaby** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:17 pm

My kids dig the 80's music I listen to, but also have their own likes of modern stuff, which I think is cute.

ZachAttack · Post by **ZachAttack** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:54 pm

Genebaby wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:48 am Here in Australia people love the 80's. 80's music, TV etc is very popular. There is even a a place called Club 88 Miles Per Hour, or Club 88 for short. Nothing but 80's music and memorabilia.

Imagine if the VVI could re-form and take off from where they left off. If only.....

What I've always said is that Vinnie SHOULD have been what Michael Angelo Batio is today. They have almost identical careers: were both in crazy over-the-top glam metal bands who did one insane shred album with a ridiculous image then one more commercial album then never made another, both obviously wear wigs, both put out instructional videos, both were known as the absolute fastest player on the planet, both seen as kinda goofy today...but look at MAB, he embraces it and now people see him as a legit virtuoso. The general consensus on MAB today is "yeah he was in that silly band and dresses funny and has the ridiculous wig, but he really CAN play". That is exactly what Vinnie should be doing. People would look past all the dumb shit if he was on youtube showing how to play crazy scales and doing all kinds of shredding tricks and going around the country doing clinics and giving online lessons....instead he decides to do whatever the hell it is he's doing now and he's seen as even MORE of a weirdo than he used to be

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:02 am

100% my feeling also. MAB is one of the coolest people on the planet.....period!

Post by **Genebaby** » Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:41 am

Yeah, so many missed opportunities and so many better things Vinnie could be doing to grow his image and brand in a positive way. If he embraced today like MAB and many others he'd be doing so much better.

But it seems that all he is capable of giving us is what he is doing these days, unfortunately.

Mikelangelo · Post by **Mikelangelo** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:45 am

What are Vinnie's motives?

In case he has reasons not to do...mostly nothing

He could have gotten a band together, decent career (at least) etc. I mean, there's been several "guitar heroes" who have played in name-bands and had a careers after that. Tommy Bolin, Paul Kossoff, Mick Ronson were not shredders but they made themselves careers (albeit short for two former) after playing with famous band/singer. Vinnie has/had the talent, he should try to find a good manager and get his shit together!!! He could make fine songs and albums if he'd get himself inspired and motivated!!!

Post by **Genebaby** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:49 pm

I think the answer is Vinnie himself. There are memes about who is stopping you from practicing, or achieving your goals, and the answer is you.

I think it's the same with Vinnie. He's had managers, he had a band and a record deal at one point, but lost it all and never gained it back. There is really only one person who can be at the heart of that. Sadly.

Mikelangelo · Post by **Mikelangelo** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:29 am

True. I just listened to the Warrior I CD and that stuff really sounds good!!! Vinnie should get back doing something like that, well doing his thing.

Post by **Genebaby** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:15 pm

He should go back to doing anything, something!!! Moving forward with his music rather than these get togethers. Like, have them too, but is that all there is? His comeback legacy will be all about exclusive little parties?

It's like a meet and greet you get before a concert, but there is no concert. Vinnie has the gift, but he's squandering it.

wolfgang161272 · Post by **wolfgang161272** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:50 pm

What's about the filmed event? Any news about the DVD?

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:45 am

Nothing yet and I wouldn't hold your breath. If it does come out, great. Otherwise just add it to the list.

richiehaha · Post by **richiehaha** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:06 pm

I became a Vinnie fan during his KISS days. Truth be told, I almost never listened to the Invasion after he left KISS or no time after that. So for the past few days I've been listening to the Invasion on Spotify while working out. Now some people may disagree whole-heartedly with what I'm about to say, and that's cool by me. I have found the Invasion to be borderline unlistenable. The vocals are way too screechy and the songs just didn't do it for me. I did like Boys are Gonna Rock, that was really it. I guess I expected it to sound like the Lick It Up Album...not even close. So that's my two cents, tell me I have no idea wtf I'm talking about. I will LMFAO. After all, opinions are like assholes....everybody's got one.
So, Vinnie, if you do ever make a comeback, please remember the KISS era for fans such as myself.

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:06 pm

Interesting Richie.

I love the Vinnie we got on Lick It Up very much. Whatever happened, it worked. The guitar sound, the playing, whether it was restrained or not, it suited the new, unmasked KISS to a T.

Then, I love both Invasion albums, for their differences to each other, and to the KISS material. The OTT craziness with singing and playing, it was the 80's in their purest form.

The second VVI album should have been a lot bigger, but Vinnie being Vinnie and the band imploding, that was never to be. They could really have expanded and built on their fan base for the next release, and the next....

richiehaha · Post by **richiehaha** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:22 pm

Very Fair Rebuttal Genebaby. I wanted so much to feel the same way you do about VVI. Just didn't happen for me.

Mikelangelo · Post by **Mikelangelo** » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:09 am

Yes, indeed Lick It Up made an impression when it came out!!!
Absolutely!!! I had just heard KISS for the first time and Lick It Up sounded "new and fresh", like Iron Maiden's "Piece Of Mind".

Post by **Genebaby** » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:54 am

richiehaha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:22 pm Very Fair Rebuttal Genebaby. I wanted so much to feel the same way you do about VVI. Just didn't happen for me.

No stress man, just letting you know my feelings, we're all different. I remember being super hooked on the VVI albums and thinking how much better they were than the KISS offerings of the time, but I can dig Asylum and Crazy Nights a lot too, some great songs on there. Just could have been better with Vinnie's touch.

So, as a big Vinnie fan I already feel his body of available work is very small, but for you it's even smaller!!

richiehaha · Post by **richiehaha** » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:16 pm

Genebaby wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:54 am
richiehaha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:22 pm Very Fair Rebuttal Genebaby. I wanted so much to feel the same way you do about VVI. Just didn't happen for me.
No stress man, just letting you know my feelings, we're all different. I remember being super hooked on the VVI albums and thinking how much better they were than the KISS offerings of the time, but I can dig Asylum and Crazy Nights a lot too, some great songs on there. Just could have been better with Vinnie's touch.

So, as a big Vinnie fan I already feel his body of available work is very small, but for you it's even smaller!!

Yeah, who knows where KISS may have gone musically had things worked out with Vinnie. And I think it's worth mentioning that KISS found a Godsend in Bruce Kulick after Vinnie and Mark St. John. Bruce steadied the KISS ship for many years.

richiehaha · Post by **richiehaha** » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:19 pm

Mikelangelo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:09 am Yes, indeed Lick It Up made an impression when it came out!!!
Absolutely!!! I had just heard KISS for the first time and Lick It Up sounded "new and fresh", like Iron Maiden's "Piece Of Mind".

Iron Maiden, Piece of Mind!!! Still sounds fresh today!!!

Post by **Genebaby** » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:43 pm

richiehaha wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:16 pm
Genebaby wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:54 am
richiehaha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:22 pm Very Fair Rebuttal Genebaby. I wanted so much to feel the same way you do about VVI. Just didn't happen for me.
No stress man, just letting you know my feelings, we're all different. I remember being super hooked on the VVI albums and thinking how much better they were than the KISS offerings of the time, but I can dig Asylum and Crazy Nights a lot too, some great songs on there. Just could have been better with Vinnie's touch.

So, as a big Vinnie fan I already feel his body of available work is very small, but for you it's even smaller!!
Yeah, who knows where KISS may have gone musically had things worked out with Vinnie. And I think it's worth mentioning that KISS found a Godsend in Bruce Kulick after Vinnie and Mark St. John. Bruce steadied the KISS ship for many years.

Yes!!! As much as having an eccentric and exciting bandmate can be good/fun for a bit, it wears on you and you cannot tell people enough how good it is to work with reliable people. After Peter, Ace and Vinnie, needing so much effort to get some of them to do stuff, I know that Gene and Paul appreciate having Eric and Tommy in the band now, along with Bruce and Eric in the past.

With Eric and Tommy they know shit will get done, and easily and professionally. And that is gold.

richiehaha · Post by **richiehaha** » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:26 am

Having Eric Singer in KISS never bothered me. After all, he's been there since before they put the makeup back on & he is a much better drummer than Peter Criss, in my humble opinion. I don't like him in Peter's makeup though. They should have let him dream up his own identity. I read somewhere where Eric said he would have been "The Hawk" in KISS makeup..
Now Tommy Thayer...not a fan at all. He's always tried way too hard to replace Ace, which is impossible (I'm sure that's what he was told to do, but it was still a bad move). At the very least, they should have allowed Tommy to also dream up his own identity.
After all, KISS allowed Vinnie to become a new character, hence the Ankh Warrior was born.

Post by **Genebaby** » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:15 am

KISS in the 2000's is a different beast than it was when Peter and Ace first left.

1. Peter and Ace still owned their makeup designs and would NEVER let the new guys use it.

2. The fans would never have accepted a new person in the old makeup. KISS was Ace, Peter, Gene and Paul, not the Catman, Spaceman, Demon and Starchild we have now.

Back in the day it was unthinkable to not have new characters and later it was the best move to keep the most recognisable faces.

It's Paul and Gene being pragmatic and it's obviously worked. Still selling a lot of concert tickets, rather than diluting the look and appeal of KISS.

It's true, they are a charicature of themselves, rather than moving forward they are forcing themselves to stick to the old KISS formula, where up until the reunion KISS was growing and evolving.

Not so anymore, Tommy is paid well to meet like Ace, or more accurately, the Spaceman character Ace invented. Similar thing with Eric.

I'd do it a million times over if I was in their shoes.

richiehaha · Post by **richiehaha** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:04 am

I speak only from personal preference by saying: I would have preferred KISS reinvent themselves after Ace and Peter left the second time.

Here's my vision of what should have happened....

They stayed in the makeup & gave Eric his own KISS identity.
They found a new & exciting guitarist with his own KISS identity.
They put out "up with the times" rock-n-roll that would have brought in a new addition to their fan base.
When the time was right, Gene and Paul would step aside, being replaced by a younger lead singer and bassist...this would re-ignite the KISS brand. Gene and Paul could have remained in charge of the KISS brand, managing it from the outside & still making bank.

If done right, it would have worked.
But they went for the original look (and the money that came with it).

Now anything new that they put out sucks and they're stuck with a bunch of 50 and 60 something year old farts as fans...me being one of them...barely.

Post by **Genebaby** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:05 pm

Nice.

Most of that wasn't possible as you know, but you never know.

Things could be way different now had they released that great rock record instead of the Elder. After that it was too late for even Creatures to save them. Oh well.

Gene and Paul own the cat and spaceman designs, not sure who owns Eric's and Vinnie's anymore. Sammy would know!

richiehaha · Post by **richiehaha** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:22 pm

I think KISS still owns Vinnie's makeup. Would that be why he changes it slightly when he wears it now?
They probably still own Eric's too.
KISS owns everything and everyone, lmao.

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:21 am

richiehaha wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:26 am Eric Singer KISS should have let him dream up his own identity.

Yer the COCKSUCKER!

Post by **Genebaby** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:39 pm

Eric would have gone for the Hawk, he has the profile for it!

richiehaha · Post by **richiehaha** » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:35 pm

Genebaby wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:39 pm Eric would have gone for the Hawk, he has the profile for it!

I saw an interview with Eric Singer from years ago where he said that he would have chosen to be The Hawk in KISS makeup.
So, good call Genebaby!

Post by **Genebaby** » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:07 pm

Yeah, I was saying it cause I'd heard about it, and it makes sense too!

Neither Eric or Tommy had any choice in what they do in KISS or how they appear, it was Gene and Paul, who now own all the makeup designs, who preferred to keep KISS looking like they were the original people, and now that it was more modern times and people would accept the idea much better.

Back in the day KISS were mysterious, we still didn't know what they looked like. Now all that has been over for a long time, so it doesn't matter so much, and from a distance KISS look like the classic lineup.

BengalWACO · Post by **BengalWACO** » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:57 am

aeroflott wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:30 pm
BengalWACO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:51 am I was a member of this group Legion and another group. I love Vinnie the guitar player, but they started blacking out faces of other members of bands he was in the shot with. I thought it was kinda shady and left because I didn't want to be affiliated with that level of fandom. I like being here because there are opinions of all sides which are listened and debated.
It is absolutely ridiculous. There seems to be a good and bad list of people who can be pictured. Pictures of Eric Carr it seems can be posted, but Bobby, Mark and Dana not so. It's one thing to have a "no pics of these guys" rule in place (daft enough in itself), it's another to post pictures featuring them on and then black out their faces. Totally pointless - and frankly really insulting to fans. If you're a VV fan, you know who these guys are and their place in VV history, so why delete them?

Vinnie's story, good and bad, has got him to the place he's at now. It is all relevant and important.

As you say, I'm very uncomfortable being associated with that sort of nonsense.

Very well said.

BengalWACO · Post by **BengalWACO** » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:57 am

Slayer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:13 am
BengalWACO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:51 am I was a member of this group Legion and another group. I love Vinnie the guitar player, but they started blacking out faces of other members of bands he was in the shot with. I thought it was kinda shady and left because I didn't want to be affiliated with that level of fandom. I like being here because there are opinions of all sides which are listened and debated.

Perfectly stated, no one is muzzled here!

That is how it should be Slayer!!! Rock and Roll!