Poor planning caused the box set disaster

[doublev2]

i will just say this. 5 years after vv stole the pre-sale money for the Archives Box Set he released Archives 1 Speedball Jamm for $35 each and not one of those were given to people who lost their cash .. my question is WHY? To be honest I don't like it anyway but he could have at least offered this plus some sort of refund but no he didn't .. he obvoiusly had some cash to put this out.

[KissMyAss]

All I've been saying is that things are not necessarily black and white, good and evil. There are other possibilities. But the customer doesn't have to care about the intention of the business. The product is numero uno. So are the customer's needs. I could reiterate the same points again and again.

IF he is a conman, he didn't get away with it cause he's VINNIE VINCENT
IF his intentions were good, he should stick to playing music.

[doublev2]

ok. good , get you now.

[Genebaby]

KMA, not one box set reached a paying fan, none. What was sold on EBay was an empty box only, claiming to be from the failed Archives set. Nobody saw a single cassette, for sure we would know about it.

There are no happy box set customers.

[doublev2]

the numbering of orderes if correct was quite high too. but it could have all been a way of making it look more in demand than it was.

[KissMyAss]

yes and VV didn't have a product and didn't have good information so what are you saying? All I am saying is you are saying VV had a business and I see no evidence of any business.

I'm saying "bad information=bad managerial decisions." If he had a product (which there is a picture of one) he couldn't manufacture enough to fill the orders. He was buying studio time. He wasn't controlling costs. He ran out of money.

Good luck finding a helluva lot of public information on a business that small. You'd have to go back to the state and dig through business entity registrations for the year of its inception. Needle in a haystack. He rented office space next to a CPA, that's all I know. And Metaluna is mentioned in Cusano vs. Klein

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?pa ... SizeDisp=7

[erg2]

I'm still not sure what your intention of these posts are. Just general discussion or how Vinnie handled his business and where you felt he got things right or wrong? Whatever they were intended for, they have spurred interesting conversation.

You are correct about utilizing 1 design for multiple purposes. That really gets you an ROI on your design investment. A well designed, professional page which require image corrections can cost several hundred dollars per page...so, if he had 2-3 designs for the cover he probably had 1K in design alone. High Quality proofs (Kodak, Creo, etc.) were usually around $300-$400 each. A mock-up...taking a proof and affixing it to the box...would also cost a few hundred bucks plus cost of the proof used.

Customers and consumers are a lot more cost conscious these days and are requiring fewer proofs, lower quality proofs and mock-ups use the cheapest of materials just to relay the concept. A $400 proof in the late 90s would only run maybe $150-$200 today. The mock-up would use a really low-cost print...and maybe even use a "digital 3D" rendering instead. Most people would also go with a "standard" size box and digital printing allows printing directly onto the box instead of on paper and mounting it to the box.

So what am I saying? Vinnie seems like the type that would've gone WAY over in pulling multiple proofs, multiple mock-ups and probably paying a "Rush" premium. He could've saved SO much cash by going cheaper on the box, not fretting over making the box picture 5% better or offering different versions. He blew a lot of what could've been profit, time and potentially could've gotten the boxset out instead of eventually running out of cash.

[KissMyAss]

Controlling cost is the key to a gain.. A rule of thumb.

[PyroMessiah]

Years back, I remember hearing from Vinnie's original Webmaster and he at the time was surprised by the whole mess. From what I recall, he was involved with Vinnie in the early stages of what would become Archives. He had always thought it should have been one disc/tape at a time, not an entire box set.

As someone who lost money on it, it was plain theft. I don't ever believe that Vinnie intended to steal from his fans, but he has shown time and time again that he has no idea how to run a business, even if that business is himself. As time went on, and people started wanting their money back or the product, he kept issuing "updates" that it was coming soon. This delay, that excuse, they just kept piling up until finally they stopped.

To my knowledge, only one fan ever got his/her money back. One actually got an attorney involved and wouldn't you know it, money was refunded.

Speedball Jamm was a mess. Many fans ended up having to pay AGAIN for something that they'd already paid for once before. Yes, that garbage was initially claimed to be on the box set. But to add insult to it, what did Vinnie call that release? ARCHIVES Volume 1: Speedball Jamm. To me, that was like a big fuck you to the fans. "Yeah, I know you paid for it years ago, but here, pay for it again and maybe this time you'll actually get it."

I do have all the old letters still, including the envelopes that they're came in. I'd have a better chance of getting a hundred bucks out of Gene Simmons than out of Vinnie at this point. As much as he seems to hate his fans these days, you have to wonder if he somehow feels justified in keeping everyone's money.

[erg2]

I went through the same thing. I also kept the letters, envelopes and the colorful guitar picks that they included with the letters. I also purchased Speedball Jam knowing that it was supposed to be on the boxset that I already paid for but never received. I was appalled when it arrived because of the low-quality and the fact that they didn't even bother to track the damn thing. I listened to about 15 minutes of it once and then fast-forwarded again and again trying to see if there was anything that sounded different. There was not.

[doublev2]

also speedball jamm was advertised as a new album (first since ASG) which was b.s. (by the only retailer)
i pre-ordered Speedball and then when it was release date a review came out and I emailed the company and cancelled the order. Luckily they hadn't shipped yet but I remember it being 25 or 35 bucks.

He has ripped people off since however so its still the same thing going on.

[ozone73]

I bought Speedball ... even though I read reviews about it and people complaining about it not being broken into seperate tracks. In one review I read, the guy called Vinnie a "stupid son of a bitch" for making it one long track. I bought it anyways cuz I thought it would be cool to have some new Vinnie Vincent stuff. Yes, the one long track is quite annoying, but like erg2, I could only listen to so much of it before it just started to irritate the shit out of me because it all sounded the same.

[Genebaby]

It all the sounded the same cause it all WAS the same, lol.....

[doublev2]

The sad thing is vv is better than that record. Would love to have heard vv do a real instrumental record with a lot more feeling and dimension.

[doublev2]

Just like he ordered Diane and Les around at namm, you are never a team with vv you are always under his thumb or feel his wrath.

[erg2]

Just like he ordered Diane and Les around at namm, you are never a team with vv you are always under his thumb or feel his wrath.

And, as I recall, this is the type of situation that he found unrewarding when he was in the white face band.

[Genebaby]

Oh yes, with Vinnie it's a case of don't do to me what I do to you.

[Portillo]

The sad thing is vv is better than that record. Would love to have heard vv do a real instrumental record with a lot more feeling and dimension.

I dont mind the first 10-15 minutes of speedball jamm. I dont think Ive heard it all the way through. It seems as though the quality gets worse as the track goes on.

[erg2]

A song like Speedball is fine...just pair it up with a jazz instrumental, or a harder rock. Show some variety.

[metatron]

Speedball jam is a right royal insult to anyone's intelligence. That cassette deck dribble quality should have been a free down load to fans. Packaging wise, the release is sparse. There is no booklet, but the CD insert does fold out into a 4 panel picture of Vinnie consisting of rehashed regurgitated photos that we have all seen. Details on the varying component parts of the audio material is sparse. The CD only has a single 1 hour 11 minute track, so the material has not been tracked at all. Since the material has been taken from analog sources, no cleanup has been done to take the analog hiss out. Total crap. Another example of his scams.

Look if anyone is really into this stuff, I'll sell you a copy of my ultra shredding nodding for $40 plus postage. I'll even sign that sucker for u (no extra charge ). Drop me a line...Can't be worse that that crap.

[doublev2]

I always agree with erg2 but this time I can not say this is in the league of a jazz instrumental. Most great jazz instrumentals are bases around a song or melody.

[erg2]

I always agree with erg2 but this time I can not say this is in the league of a jazz instrumental. Most great jazz instrumentals are bases around a song or melody.

I apologize for the unclear post. I was trying to say that he has the ability to play all manner of guitar styles...well. (At least he used to be able to.) If he wants to sell a full length album of instrumentals, he SHOULD include a variety. Write a jazz-flavored instrumental, record and put it on the album. Write a country-flavored instrumental, record and put it on the album. Write a swing-flavored instrumental, record and put it on the album. Write a hard-rock-flavored instrumental, record and put it on the album.

Don't just give us one track of the same "song" repeated 5 times. (Speedball Jam is hardly a song...it is a riff repeated over and over and over and over whilst Vinnie plays fast scales over it.)

[doublev2]

Got ya.