• Vinnie and the KISS contract

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:12 am**

TheGoodDr wrote:
So how did huey lewis and the news and blondies albums fair?
I'm curious to see the stats for Huey Lewis because this dude was the SHIZZZ when I was in high school. I've no doubts HL & The News Chrysalis' stats for the period '84 to '89 would shit all over what Vinnie Vincent and his piss poor Invasion sold.

Huey Lewis 1983 album went 7 times platinum

His 1986 album plummeted in sales and only went 3 times platinum

By 1988, his album shipped platinum and it didn't go any further than that.

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:30 am**

I LIKE BRAINSAW....someone who has read things and saw that Vinnie was stiffed....hard.

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:35 am**

Eddie, we like everybody here, but there's no need to try and convince us VVI were a mega band.

Vinnie stiffed himself, that's the sad end to that story. We all lost when he did that.

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:38 am**

Genebaby wrote:...we like everybody here...

I like everyone BUT that doesn't mean that some people don't need to be told to go get fucked at times. SLURP !!!!

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:03 am**

Vinnie may have been "stiffed hard" during his online sex parties but he stiffed his own carreer... had more chances at success than anyone else I can think of.

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:10 am**

Genebaby wrote:Eddie, we like everybody here, but there's no need to try and convince us VVI were a mega band. t.

Thanks Eddie

GeneBaby--who is trying to convince anyone VVI was a Mega Band?

Just pointing out the reality of things as they stood back then.

Megaband would mean selling more than two albums at least--multiplatinum. Also, mean several sold out arena tours.

There's plenty of forgotten bands who went gold during the 80s. Would you all them mega bands?

VVI had a fan base of around 400K or so. Give or take. Do you consider that huge?

ASG had the potential to be a platinum or multi-platinum album but it fell through. Slaughter reaped those benefits.

Did VVI have the album with the longest chart history of any of the KISS solo artists. Yes.

Did VVI have the fastest selling debut in the history of Chrysalis. Yes

Were VVI on two of the most high profile tours of 86-87. Absolutely.

Was VVI mentioned in 1986 Year End Billboard as "making waves" Certainly.

Aerosmith offer for VVI to Open in 1988. Yes.

Vinnie approached to do title song for Nightmare series. Yes

The marketing for ASG much stronger and better than for Invasion. Absolutely.

Was there a new President at Chrysalis that understood metal...and helped break Poison.. etc...and that was all part of the ASG game plan. Certainly.

Was Vinnie #4 in Hits Breakout chart in May ahead of some huge bands...because ASG was doing great at retail when it came out. That's a fact.

Did Ashes To Ashes get the radio play that Mike Bone and the press releases talked about. Certainly. As backed up by the radio charts.

The question is...was Invasion at 400,000 units as Vinnie claimed in May 1988? Possible.

Did Chrysalis confuse the 250,000 Invasion units sold by November 1986 when they were saying ASG shipped more than that? Possible.

Did Vinnie and Chrysalis both say ASG shipped 250,000 or more on the initial shipment- YES. And the second shipment was 50,000 more units after the first week it was out.

By July 2, they had shipped over 375,000 units of All Systems Go. (of course reminding people that this was because of re-orders--not a KISS deal where they over-shipped and then were flooded with returns).

Does that make them a mega-band---when the first two albums might be gold (if they were audited)? No

In reality, Slaughter's debut could probably be certified as 3 X platinum now (if it were resubmitted). Does that make Slaughter a mega band? No. They had one album that sold well. After all, "The WIld Life" only went gold. Huge drop for them.

And really, Bobby was playing with a bigger band than Slaughter. Nelson's "After The Rain" was huge and they toured like hell--did alot of headlining that Slaughter couldn't match.

So you really think anyone around here made a claim that VVI was a mega band???

Do any of you think Britny Fox was a big band? They went gold
Faster Pussycat? They went gold
LA Guns? They went gold

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:17 am**

Genebaby wrote: Vinnie stiffed himself, that's the sad end to that story. We all lost when he did that.

Which time? KISS by leaving (and not ending up like Ace, Peter or Eric)?

At Chrysalis? Well, he'd had enough and couldn't put up with them watering down his music any longer.

Enigma? He didn't cause that label to go under. And by the time it did --album sales were beginning to start sucking even for high profile acts.

Now you can gripe that he hasn't released material since then. CMC would have been a good choice for Guitarmageddon possibly but look at what Slaughter's sales were with them. I

Zoom Club, Roadrunner, Frontiers etc? They'd probably put it out but how much do you think they'd offer?

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:21 am**

Brainsaw, all those past stats are well and good but they are just that... IN THE PAST. The best thing Vinnie could do nowadays to be relevant is to start releasing new shit (and no, you don't have to sell millions to be relevant.) Trying to convince others of what band was bigger than the rest is just silly. Most of my favorite bands are the lesser known ones or obscure to the general public... that doesn't mean they suck because the general public doesn't like them. If anything, it just means it's better than the lowest common denominator pap that's shoved down the fair weather listener's ears daily.

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:46 am**

@PinkWiz- the Ass Pimple has nothing to add to any discussions except his stats copied and pasted from the Internet. Over and over again, ad nauseum. He's built an entire, rich, fulfilling life around them and his collection of magazines. What he NEVER understands is that...WE GET IT. Vinnie should've been much bigger and had almost every chance. Instead of having a conversation, he hits us over the head with the SAME Internet stats.
Yawn.

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:34 pm**

erg2 wrote: What he NEVER understands is that...WE GET IT. Vinnie should've been much bigger and had almost every chance. Instead of having a conversation, he hits us over the head with the SAME Internet stats.
Yawn.

I hate to say it... but... THIS. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:51 pm**

Brainsaw wrote:
Genebaby wrote:Eddie, we like everybody here, but there's no need to try and convince us VVI were a mega band. t.

Thanks Eddie

GeneBaby--who is trying to convince anyone VVI was a Mega Band?

Just pointing out the reality of things as they stood back then.

Megaband would mean selling more than two albums at least--multiplatinum. Also, mean several sold out arena tours.

There's plenty of forgotten bands who went gold during the 80s. Would you all them mega bands?

VVI had a fan base of around 400K or so. Give or take. Do you consider that huge?

ASG had the potential to be a platinum or multi-platinum album but it fell through. Slaughter reaped those benefits.

Did VVI have the album with the longest chart history of any of the KISS solo artists. Yes.

Did VVI have the fastest selling debut in the history of Chrysalis. Yes

Were VVI on two of the most high profile tours of 86-87. Absolutely.

Was VVI mentioned in 1986 Year End Billboard as "making waves" Certainly.

Aerosmith offer for VVI to Open in 1988. Yes.

Vinnie approached to do title song for Nightmare series. Yes

The marketing for ASG much stronger and better than for Invasion. Absolutely.

Was there a new President at Chrysalis that understood metal...and helped break Poison.. etc...and that was all part of the ASG game plan. Certainly.

Was Vinnie #4 in Hits Breakout chart in May ahead of some huge bands...because ASG was doing great at retail when it came out. That's a fact.

Did Ashes To Ashes get the radio play that Mike Bone and the press releases talked about. Certainly. As backed up by the radio charts.

The question is...was Invasion at 400,000 units as Vinnie claimed in May 1988? Possible.

Did Chrysalis confuse the 250,000 Invasion units sold by November 1986 when they were saying ASG shipped more than that? Possible.

Did Vinnie and Chrysalis both say ASG shipped 250,000 or more on the initial shipment- YES. And the second shipment was 50,000 more units after the first week it was out.

By July 2, they had shipped over 375,000 units of All Systems Go. (of course reminding people that this was because of re-orders--not a KISS deal where they over-shipped and then were flooded with returns).

Does that make them a mega-band---when the first two albums might be gold (if they were audited)? No

In reality, Slaughter's debut could probably be certified as 3 X platinum now (if it were resubmitted). Does that make Slaughter a mega band? No. They had one album that sold well. After all, "The WIld Life" only went gold. Huge drop for them.

And really, Bobby was playing with a bigger band than Slaughter. Nelson's "After The Rain" was huge and they toured like hell--did alot of headlining that Slaughter couldn't match.

So you really think anyone around here made a claim that VVI was a mega band???

Do any of you think Britny Fox was a big band? They went gold
Faster Pussycat? They went gold
LA Guns? They went gold

Needed to be said again. Heck, no answers even to the last question. What's the matter? Most here can't handle the truth?

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:03 pm**

THE FUCKIN' TRUTH ABOUT WHAT?! What point are you trying to drive home?? THis is a Vinnie Vincent/Vincent John Cusano fan forum!!! WHY ARE U PREACHING TO US??? WE ARE VV FANS!!!!!

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:39 pm**

Brainsaw wrote:
Genebaby wrote:Eddie, we like everybody here, but there's no need to try and convince us VVI were a mega band. t.

Thanks Eddie

GeneBaby--who is trying to convince anyone VVI was a Mega Band? You of course

Just pointing out the reality of things as they stood back then.

Megaband would mean selling more than two albums at least--multiplatinum. Also, mean several sold out arena tours.

There's plenty of forgotten bands who went gold during the 80s. Would you all them mega bands? No

VVI had a fan base of around 400K or so. Give or take. Do you consider that huge? There is no proof of this fan base, and that is not huge if there was.

ASG had the potential to be a platinum or multi-platinum album but it fell through. Slaughter reaped those benefits.

Did VVI have the album with the longest chart history of any of the KISS solo artists. Yes.

Did VVI have the fastest selling debut in the history of Chrysalis. Yes

Were VVI on two of the most high profile tours of 86-87. Absolutely.

Was VVI mentioned in 1986 Year End Billboard as "making waves" Certainly.

Aerosmith offer for VVI to Open in 1988. Yes.

Vinnie approached to do title song for Nightmare series. Yes

The marketing for ASG much stronger and better than for Invasion. Absolutely.

Was there a new President at Chrysalis that understood metal...and helped break Poison.. etc...and that was all part of the ASG game plan. Certainly.

Was Vinnie #4 in Hits Breakout chart in May ahead of some huge bands...because ASG was doing great at retail when it came out. That's a fact.

Did Ashes To Ashes get the radio play that Mike Bone and the press releases talked about. Certainly. As backed up by the radio charts. Ashes to Ashes, excellent song but forgotten (missed) radio hit.

The question is...was Invasion at 400,000 units as Vinnie claimed in May 1988? Possible.

Did Chrysalis confuse the 250,000 Invasion units sold by November 1986 when they were saying ASG shipped more than that? Possible.

Did Vinnie and Chrysalis both say ASG shipped 250,000 or more on the initial shipment- YES. And the second shipment was 50,000 more units after the first week it was out. We are trusting two untrustworthy sources here and there is no proof of these extra shipments. Nor do we really care at this stage. Call it your own theory but not a statement of fact please.

By July 2, they had shipped over 375,000 units of All Systems Go. (of course reminding people that this was because of re-orders--not a KISS deal where they over-shipped and then were flooded with returns).

Does that make them a mega-band---when the first two albums might be gold (if they were audited)? No

In reality, Slaughter's debut could probably be certified as 3 X platinum now (if it were resubmitted). Does that make Slaughter a mega band? No. They had one album that sold well. After all, "The WIld Life" only went gold. Huge drop for them. Slaughter started out as being a mega band, they truly were popular, but could not sustain this and went downhill. Even I don't know their other albums other than one or two songs on the second album. I kinda mean to check out the later stuff but never get around to it.

And really, Bobby was playing with a bigger band than Slaughter. Nelson's "After The Rain" was huge and they toured like hell--did alot of headlining that Slaughter couldn't match.

So you really think anyone around here made a claim that VVI was a mega band??? You, you keep pushing ideas that they were bigger than they were, when these days we don't care. Back in the day we would have been keeping really good tabs given the same tech and resources we have today.

Do any of you think Britny Fox was a big band? They went gold
Faster Pussycat? They went gold No
LA Guns? They went gold No

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:51 pm**

Isn' it funny now hose other bands who went gold aren't mega bands but supposedly I am claiming VVI was...

Too funny....

Ashes To Ashes.... radio hit...never intended for top 40. But 65 AOR stations did have it in rotation.

No proof of extra shipments of ASG. Heck, there's really no proof of any except what you saw at the record store? Did you even live in the US at the time? There probably weren't ever any copies in existence. All a hoax.

Billboard, Hits--you name it. All a hoax. Press releases etc-- all a huge hoax from a record label that could spend tons of money buying people off to all go along with the alien hoax (er huge sales..of course 375,000 units isn't huge... but in the twilight zone around here...thats huge and it makes VVI a mega band.

Who cares what they sold. Who cares about facts.

VVI a mega band.....because the facts of the album sales were made. Oh yeah. 375,000 units puts them up there with Bon Jovi and Guns and Roses and all those other mega bands.

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:56 pm**

Haha Brainsaw... funny joke... you fooled us all here... now quit giving Cusano a bad name!

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:06 pm**

PinkWiz wrote:Haha Brainsaw... funny joke... you fooled us all here... now quit giving Cusano a bad name!

Said the "big fan" PinkWiz. Such a fan you are!

PinkWiz wrote:Too bad Vinnie looks at it like if KISS can fuck him outta money then why can't he do the same to everyone else. He's bitter and delusional beyond our comprehension and doesn't care who he steps on or pisses off... that's why he's such a recluse; paranoia over knowing you've fucked people over for so long can kinda drive you into seclusion.

Now why would Vinnie not like this place again?! Please share. I mean, you all are so kind. That was just normal par for the course.

And if you don't remember that nice comment it was about the handwritten note for sale.

But I can sure feel the love and can tell how much you care. Big time!

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:14 pm**

You think Vinnie will ever pay back the money he owes to his fans who bought the box set? You think he will ever answer an email to a fan who did nothing but praise him (without being paranoid and blaming said fan of being some kinda insider?) Truth be told told, as a songwriter first and guitarist second Vinnie is one of my biggest influences musically EVER since I was 11 years old!

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:04 pm**

Brainsaw vvi most definitely did not have a fan base of 400k. Give me a break. Also sales dont equal fans.

Posted: **Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:07 pm**

Brainsaw. Ashes to ashes was or wasnt the first single because all you have said until now it was. All the record company reports / publicity you posted clearly say first single.
And ashes to ashes was never on rotation. I assure no vv fan ever heard ashes on the radio in 1988.

Posted: **Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:53 am**

@doubleV- This Ass Pimple is just a gullible buffoon. He's decided Vinnie has 400,000+ fans waiting for him, had major success in the 80s and it was all outside forces that conspired to keep him from breaking out to being a household name.
Why would the 40 or so people here keep coming back every day to discuss his music and career if we weren't fans? But being a fan also doesn't mean that we have to be delusional about how well the band really did and the deplorable actions the MAN did?

Posted: **Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:02 am**

If Vinnie had some cojones he would have no problem with anybody on this or other previous Vinnie sites.

It's not always going to be roses and perfume, you can't be soft and cry and sulk when someone says something you don't like.

We are not gushing per-teens here.

You don't want to answer the questions about the questionable things Vinnie has done or think about how he alone is really responsible for where he is today, not record companies, not KISS. You always ignore that part of his life.

Posted: **Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:46 am**

Brainsaw wrote:
Genebaby wrote: Vinnie stiffed himself, that's the sad end to that story. We all lost when he did that.

Which time? KISS by leaving (and not ending up like Ace, Peter or Eric)?

exactly!! vinnie could have ended up far worse.....coulda been the whiney old man who tells gene and paul to fuck off any chance he gets but was let back in the band a few times (peter)

or the perennial drunk racist guy who dresses up in nazi outfits. (ace)

so i agree with you here,man.

Posted: **Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:11 am**

AceAlive1 wrote:
Brainsaw wrote:
Genebaby wrote: Vinnie stiffed himself, that's the sad end to that story. We all lost when he did that.

Which time? KISS by leaving (and not ending up like Ace, Peter or Eric)?

exactly!! vinnie could have ended up far worse.....coulda been the whiney old man who tells gene and paul to fuck off any chance he gets but was let back in the band a few times (peter)

or the perennial drunk racist guy who dresses up in nazi outfits. (ace)

so i agree with you here,man.

And God forbid he ended up like Eric Carr.

Doctors will tell ya.... if you really want to increase your odds of beating cancer-- positive mental outlooks are one of the best things.

What was Eric dealing with? Was he allowed to have a positive mental outlook? Hell no! He was constantly worried Singer was going to take his job.

He was constantly being pressured to quit the band.

Once, he's out of the band, bingo... unless the band signed something saying he could stay on the company policy for X amount of time after he left--boom he's without insurance.

The guy had been in the band 11 years at that point and then trying to discard him like that.

Did KISS even ever do any cancer benefit shows until after Shannon had her bout?

Posted: **Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:14 pm**

Brainsaw wrote:
AceAlive1 wrote:
Brainsaw wrote:
Genebaby wrote: Vinnie stiffed himself, that's the sad end to that story. We all lost when he did that.

Which time? KISS by leaving (and not ending up like Ace, Peter or Eric)?

exactly!! vinnie could have ended up far worse.....coulda been the whiney old man who tells gene and paul to fuck off any chance he gets but was let back in the band a few times (peter)

or the perennial drunk racist guy who dresses up in nazi outfits. (ace)

so i agree with you here,man.

And God forbid he ended up like Eric Carr.

Doctors will tell ya.... if you really want to increase your odds of beating cancer-- positive mental outlooks are one of the best things.

What was Eric dealing with? Was he allowed to have a positive mental outlook? Hell no! He was constantly worried Singer was going to take his job.

He was constantly being pressured to quit the band.

Once, he's out of the band, bingo... unless the band signed something saying he could stay on the company policy for X amount of time after he left--boom he's without insurance.

The guy had been in the band 11 years at that point and then trying to discard him like that.

Did KISS even ever do any cancer benefit shows until after Shannon had her bout?

i think shannon was far more rich than eric and didnt need a benefit, she had gene and his money. she had done movies and playboy spreads. it just sucks that eric is gone and partly the reason for it was the grief caused by gene and paul.

im not trying to sound malicious,but come on. look at the eric carr intro during the dynasty era. he looked like a 17 year old kid just THRILLED to be there and then fast forward to the late 80's and he gets a check up and they're like "dont worry bout the band, just get well first" knowing full well he wasnt going to have a band to return to.

i wonder what kind of stuff would have happened had he lived and been invited to the unplugged set....or would he have been cut out of the picture like a couple of other for members at that time?

point blank, they should have done a tribute concert for him. it was rotten what they did to him after the way he bailed them out when peter was being mr druggie.

dying of a broken heart is not a mythical thing.

Posted: **Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:16 pm**

Except I'm pretty sure that Eric actually died of a brain hemorrhage.

Everyone's pretty sure that Gene and Paul treated him "not great" and "not like family", but the truth of the matter is that nobody has really heard the true story. I've heard the rumors that they cancelled his insurance while he was in the hospital or dismissed him from the band which would defacto cancel his insurance, but do you have any idea how illegal that is in ANY state in the U.S.? Even back then? They may have been trying to minimize their costs, but to cut him out would've easily left them open for all kinds of litigation.

Posted: **Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:57 am**

erg2 wrote:Except I'm pretty sure that Eric actually died of a brain hemorrhage.

Everyone's pretty sure that Gene and Paul treated him "not great" and "not like family", but the truth of the matter is that nobody has really heard the true story. I've heard the rumors that they cancelled his insurance while he was in the hospital or dismissed him from the band which would defacto cancel his insurance, but do you have any idea how illegal that is in ANY state in the U.S.? Even back then? They may have been trying to minimize their costs, but to cut him out would've easily left them open for all kinds of litigation.

hemorrhages are caused by stress.......the bad heart didnt help matters.....

Posted: **Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:14 am**

AceAlive1 wrote:
erg2 wrote:Except I'm pretty sure that Eric actually died of a brain hemorrhage.

Everyone's pretty sure that Gene and Paul treated him "not great" and "not like family", but the truth of the matter is that nobody has really heard the true story. I've heard the rumors that they cancelled his insurance while he was in the hospital or dismissed him from the band which would defacto cancel his insurance, but do you have any idea how illegal that is in ANY state in the U.S.? Even back then? They may have been trying to minimize their costs, but to cut him out would've easily left them open for all kinds of litigation.

hemorrhages are caused by stress.......the bad heart didnt help matters.....

Exactly!

And there's a reason they didn't fire him but constantly tried to get him to "quit".

If he "quit" then they don't have to worry about getting their ass sued for wrongful termination.

Gary Corbett.... Vinnie....alot of people were disgusted with how Eric Carr was treated.

And Eric got really screwed by signing that contract. He couldn't play with Ace or other things. It really limited him into doing anything else. For signing it, he got treated like shit by Gene and Paul....for years and years and then treated worse than a dog at the end.

Posted: **Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:20 am**

Brainsaw wrote:
AceAlive1 wrote:
erg2 wrote:Except I'm pretty sure that Eric actually died of a brain hemorrhage.

Everyone's pretty sure that Gene and Paul treated him "not great" and "not like family", but the truth of the matter is that nobody has really heard the true story. I've heard the rumors that they cancelled his insurance while he was in the hospital or dismissed him from the band which would defacto cancel his insurance, but do you have any idea how illegal that is in ANY state in the U.S.? Even back then? They may have been trying to minimize their costs, but to cut him out would've easily left them open for all kinds of litigation.

hemorrhages are caused by stress.......the bad heart didnt help matters.....

Exactly!

And there's a reason they didn't fire him but constantly tried to get him to "quit".

If he "quit" then they don't have to worry about getting their ass sued for wrongful termination.

Gary Corbett.... Vinnie....alot of people were disgusted with how Eric Carr was treated.

And Eric got really screwed by signing that contract. He couldn't play with Ace or other things. It really limited him into doing anything else. For signing it, he got treated like shit by Gene and Paul....for years and years and then treated worse than a dog at the end.

man this just sucks

Posted: **Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:30 am**

It doesnt change a thing. Vv skrewed his fans in 90s and booted 1000 fans off forum plus stole from many people. Doesnt change a thing what happened in kiss or vvi whoever you side with if anyone cares to side.
I say good for vv for not signing with kiss and good for vvi for quitting vvi.
The issues are what came later from expos and dealing with fans and other documented and undocumented things.

Posted: **Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:10 pm**

AceAlive1 wrote:
erg2 wrote:Except I'm pretty sure that Eric actually died of a brain hemorrhage.

Everyone's pretty sure that Gene and Paul treated him "not great" and "not like family", but the truth of the matter is that nobody has really heard the true story. I've heard the rumors that they cancelled his insurance while he was in the hospital or dismissed him from the band which would defacto cancel his insurance, but do you have any idea how illegal that is in ANY state in the U.S.? Even back then? They may have been trying to minimize their costs, but to cut him out would've easily left them open for all kinds of litigation.

hemorrhages are caused by stress.......the bad heart didnt help matters.....

No, hemorrhages are caused by blood clots. Which happens when you are in the condition Eric was in, on medications, post surgery, prolonged illness. I will agree that stress will impact the recovery time and the extent of an illness, but stress will not cause blood clots from anything I've read...and I was in the hospital briefly because of blood clots following the surgery that has permanently fucked my life.

Posted: **Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:57 am**

erg2 wrote:
AceAlive1 wrote:
erg2 wrote:Except I'm pretty sure that Eric actually died of a brain hemorrhage.

Everyone's pretty sure that Gene and Paul treated him "not great" and "not like family", but the truth of the matter is that nobody has really heard the true story. I've heard the rumors that they cancelled his insurance while he was in the hospital or dismissed him from the band which would defacto cancel his insurance, but do you have any idea how illegal that is in ANY state in the U.S.? Even back then? They may have been trying to minimize their costs, but to cut him out would've easily left them open for all kinds of litigation.

hemorrhages are caused by stress.......the bad heart didnt help matters.....
No, hemorrhages are caused by blood clots. Which happens when you are in the condition Eric was in, on medications, post surgery, prolonged illness. I will agree that stress will impact the recovery time and the extent of an illness, but stress will not cause blood clots from anything I've read...and I was in the hospital briefly because of blood clots following the surgery that has permanently fucked my life.

i know all about clots and the like....my grandmother died from (now) a perfectly treatable condition. that particular thing was brought on by stress.

eric was on the road to recovery.........i've heard this from at least a few people and one runs probably the best kiss fan site online. when he was told he wouldnt be needed anymore, his condition worsened.

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:09 am**

OK. If that's your professional medical opinion. All I am saying is that I've never heard of anyone developing blood clots from being "stressed"...but I'm not a doctor.

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:58 pm**

AceAlive1 wrote:
erg2 wrote:Except I'm pretty sure that Eric actually died of a brain hemorrhage.

Everyone's pretty sure that Gene and Paul treated him "not great" and "not like family", but the truth of the matter is that nobody has really heard the true story. I've heard the rumors that they cancelled his insurance while he was in the hospital or dismissed him from the band which would defacto cancel his insurance, but do you have any idea how illegal that is in ANY state in the U.S.? Even back then? They may have been trying to minimize their costs, but to cut him out would've easily left them open for all kinds of litigation.

hemorrhages are caused by stress.......the bad heart didnt help matters.....

No. Hemorrhages are caused by irregular arteries in the brain or blood clots. The Freudian subconscious neurotic mind school of thought began alot of medical myths with stress/anger as a false cause.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:22 am**

That's what the docs told me when I was in the hospital for blood clots for 2 days. Stress can clearly weaken and tire, which compromises the immune system but they never once said it could be a causation factor in creating a blood clot. But as I said, I'm no doc so I will not make final, sweeping statements on something of which I am no expert.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:07 am**

Bottom line is Gene and Paul deserted a "family member" when he needed them the most. They can dress it up as pretty as they want, but they pulled one of the biggest scumbag moves in rock history with what they did.

Dedicating Revenge to Eric Carr was really disgusting too.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:26 am**

Agreed.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:14 am**

Assuming the rumors of what happened really happened really happened, yes. That would make Gene & Paul a couple of the shittiest people ever. However, I still don't feel like I've personally heard the definitive story of what happened.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:49 am**

erg2 wrote:Assuming the rumors of what happened really happened really happened, yes. That would make Gene & Paul a couple of the shittiest people ever. However, I still don't feel like I've personally heard the definitive story of what happened.

They say as much in the commentary on Kissology 2. Of course they say it in a way they doesn't make them look like scumbags...something like "You have to get healthy but we have to move forward" They then say he would be welcomed back when he got better but follow the chain of events...after that happens Eric who is considered the nicest, friendliest, most open guy they know then cuts off all contact with Kiss. His parents want nothing to do with Gene and Paul and they weren't at the funeral (I think G&Ps spin was they didn't want to cause a spectacle...but I have heard elsewhere that their presence would have not been welcomed...now I guess that's a rumor so we have to make up our minds which sounds more believable)...think Philip Anselmo and Dime's funeral...I think Vinnie Paul still isn't speaking to him.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:06 pm**

I am not 100% sure, but I thought the Gene & Paul thing was kind of a overblown rumor. That they avoided the service/funeral not because they were asked not to come but because they wanted the focus to stay on Eric. I remember reading they went to the wake but sat by themselves and didn't really interact. Am I remembering that wrong?

I've posted this before, and I'm stating now that this is me conjecturing, but Gene & Paul canceling Eric's insurance sounds suspect to me. Even in the early 90's that would've been highly illegal and left them open to massive litigation...not to mention the insurance was already paid for. It just doesn't make sense. It would also be pretty difficult to fire someone just for being on medical leave, at least by today's laws where I live.

I'm not saying G&P didn't do anything bad...just some of the things they've been accused of seem illegal.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:07 pm**

5minLuvKills wrote: I think Vinnie Paul still isn't speaking to him.

I believe that there have been whispers...

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:47 pm**

erg2 wrote: I've posted this before, and I'm stating now that this is me conjecturing, but Gene & Paul canceling Eric's insurance sounds suspect to me. Even in the early 90's that would've been highly illegal and left them open to massive litigation...not to mention the insurance was already paid for. It just doesn't make sense. It would also be pretty difficult to fire someone just for being on medical leave, at least by today's laws where I live.

Yeah I saw that...as cold hearted as I think G&P are even I don't believe that legality issues aside...but I would agree with you that it sounds illegal. I think they were fine with Eric until he got sick and then like the Mark St. John/Bruce Kulick issue before I think they got a spare tire in Eric Singer (those were Gene's exact words descibing Bruce in the same commentary I was mentioning, I'm watching it now...just popped it in the DVD player). I don't think they are diabolical (the insurance thing) just self-absorbed and career driven to the point of being extremely cold-hearted under the wrong circumstances (leaving Eric behind) They could have gone the Def Leppard route and waited...Def Leppard waited for years for Rick Allen to come back after their biggest success (to that point). Kiss would never do that

poserboy71 wrote:
5minLuvKills wrote: I think Vinnie Paul still isn't speaking to him.
I believe that there have been whispers...

Really?

I'm not the biggest Pantera fan but that's a good thing I guess

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:56 pm**

I agree they should've waited. I don't doubt the heartache and stress they caused Eric impacted his recovery. Enough to save him? Probably not. Enough to get him well enough to record some music before he passed? Again, probably not. It had to be hard for Eric's parents to see their son in pain and know that G&P added extra grief onto their son he certainly didn't need at the time.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:55 pm**

Did Vincent Cusano attend his dear friend Eric Carrs Funeral?
Did Vincent Cusano attend his poor ex wife's funeral?
Did Vincent Cusano attend his fathers funeral?

Absolutely no intention of defending the actions of Gene and Paul in any way but just a quick reframe towards the subject person of this board while G&P are being called out for missing what I feel is a truly important one off event. In my opinion you go to a funeral of someone important to you that you respect without fail because generally a person wouldn't have more than one funeral with exception of a very famous national figure that might have a travelling multiple site funeral like a dead president.

It's about respect for the dead person, their family and their friends

Kev

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:10 pm**

Not sure, but I believe that G &P were at Eric's funeral. I seem to remember talk of Ace being there but sitting in a different section than G&P.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:48 pm**

Yes I remember reading back then (maybe Metal Edge) that Paul, Bruce, Gene and Ace all attended Carr's funeral and that Paul and Bruce were visibly upset.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:04 pm**

An article about Eric's funeral:

http://the-trukstop.com/2007/09/02/reme ... 1950-1991/

Funeral for Eric Carr
by Jeff Guerra

Funeral for Eric Carr, St Joseph’s Church, Middletown, NY
Saturday, November 30, 1991
Report by Jeff Guerra, KISS Army International
Lawrence, Massachusetts

On November 25, 1991, I got a call from a friend telling me that Eric Carr, KISS’ drummer of 11 years had just died. I was blown away. Flipping on MTV, my fears were confirmed. Dead at 41 years old; this really sucked. I made up my mind at that moment that if the funeral was anywhere in New York, I was going to it. The next day, the New York Daily News reported Eric’s death and info on where the funeral would be held. It would be in Middletown, NY. My grandparents live in Newburgh, NY, which is only about 10 miles from Middletown.

So, the day after Thanksgiving, I left for NY. I live in Lawrence, Massachusetts (about 25 miles from Boston), and it is only 206 miles to NY so the trek would be easy. My whole family thought I was crazy, but I am sure that any fan that had the opportunity to mourn one of their heroes would go too.

After staying in Newburgh the night before, I got up early that Saturday and made the drive to St. Joseph’s Church in Middletown, not really knowing what to expect. It was cool and sunny. About ten people were waiting at the church when I arrived there at about 7:00 am. We were all stunned from Eric’s passing away. Time passed and more people gathered. All of us were there to pay our respects to Eric. Some people were dressed according to attend church, and others were in KISS t-shirts and ripped jeans. Some had cameras: it seemed that more than half of the people were hoping to get a glimpse of Paul or Gene; what sick fucks!

When the time came for the service, a gentleman came out from the church and told us, “Against the better judgment of Mrs. Caravello, she has decided to let you people come into the service. Eric’s sister said that this is what Eric would want. Do not make her regret her decision!” With that he led us into the church in an orderly fashion.

The church was beautiful and stunning inside: big stained glass windows, very high ceiling and small nooks all over it… & there it was: Eric’s casket. At the end of the long middle aisle there is was: silver with a blue tapestry with gold trim. Not a chrome or polished silver, but a matte silver finish. It looked like a brand new DeLorean. Gene, Paul, and Bruce were already seated when we came in. Ace Frehley came later, but arrived before the service began.

The funeral service was Roman Catholic. Neither Eric’s family nor members of the band spoke, but left the speaking to the Catholic priest. Eric’s sister had written a message to the people in attendance, and when it was read out load, I stared to cry. You could feel the love his family had for him and their sense of grief over the loss of the beloved brother. This was not a funeral for the drummer of KISS. It was a passing of a brother, a son, of a friend who was taken from us way too soon. When the Communion part of the service came, I walked up to the casket, and all of this really began to sink in.

Not being Catholic, Bruce, Gene, and Paul did not go up to take communion but stayed in their seats. As I walked by, I saw that Bruce was crying uncontrollably, and his wife, Christina, was doing her best to comfort him. Gene was just staring ahead. He looked so angry: angry at God, angry at Eric… just plain angry. How could God do this to his friend? He looked as though he was thinking, “How dare Eric leave me?” Gene never wavered in his stare. When people stood up for the rest of the service, he just sat and stared – it was kind of spooky. Paul was in the clouds. His eyes were puffy and bloodshot; he was just soaking it all in.

As I walked past the casket, I reached out to it – ICE: that is exactly what it felt like. It sent a shiver up and down my spine. From that moment on, I was in a daze. I floated back to my seat and then it seemed as though Eric was there. A serene air filled the church as though he was making everyone relax…

When the service was over, the fans rushed out with their cameras to catch a glimpse of “you-know-who”. Some clicked photos of the coffin in the back of the hearse. It was pretty sick and morbid. If you were there, what do you need photos for?

The procession to Middlehope for the burial was about two miles long. It took up the whole right lane of I-84 E. Only family and guests of Eric Carr were allowed to enter the mausoleum for the burial. The rest of the people waited outside the cemetery, across the street in the parking lot of a bar. After a while the cars started to leave the cemetery. Bruce was driving a Chevy Caprice, Gene and Paul both were in a blue Lincoln Town Car and Ace left in a silver Cadillac limo.

The State Police finally told us we could go into the cemetery. We all jumped into our cars and drove in and parked in front of the mausoleum. It was a beautiful place with lots of grass and trees. Many flowers from the funeral were placed on the front lawn, as the fans passed by they also added their flowers for Eric to the large pile. Eric’s final resting place was towards the back of the building.

A huge rose-colored slab of marble on the wall was all that there was; his name would be added later. For now there was just a small sticker on the bottom with the word, CARAVELLO on it. People were crying and touching the wall. There was a couch right in front and I sat there for two hours. I was soaking in everyone’s feelings, trying to sort out my own, and still trying to realize that I was at the grave of my friend, my Little Caesar. And to think that I had never met the man, but at that point I never had felt closer to him.

Goodbye, Eric.

Rest in Peace…

Posted: **Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:53 am**

Well at least they attended the funeral...I don't know why I thought they didn't it doesn't change how disgusting their actions were but I'm glad they payed their last respects.. really what I'm glad about is that they were allowed to because that's what I thought the issue was.

Thanks for the article PW

Posted: **Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:15 pm**

I went to Eric's funeral and was about 10 rows behind all of them...Yes Bruce was driving a Chevy Caprice, Gene & Paul were in a Black Lincoln Town-car but what really caught me by surprise was that Ace arrived in the back seat of a Blue Ford Taurus driven by a elderly man & woman who may have been his parents....

Posted: **Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:31 pm**

Ace is Ace.

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:17 am**

Why middletown? I go there a lot. Not the nicest of places.

Vinnie and the KISS contract

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