If KISS had thrown out that 2nd contract for Vinnie (he signed the 1st one) and just kept him on the same deal he signed for COTN, how well would KISS have done in the 80's?

Its clear Mark didn't cut it in the band. Bruce added stability but that's it. Gene was basically AWOL as well from KISS. Paul sure couldn't do it on his own.

When one looks back on albums like Animalize-Hot In The Shade, Kiss was just putting out average at best material. Nothing came close to the greatness that was on "Creatures" or "Lick It Up".


Were are you happy Vinnie went AWOL so we could get "Invasion", "All Systems Go" and "Guitarmageddon" or do you wish he had stayed in KISS and saved them?

Were you thrilled he returned for Revenge? Should he have played on the album like Gene wanted? Should they have replaced Bruce with Vinnie then? Should the entire album just have been Vinnie/Gene & Vinnie/Paul co-writes?

It's a tough question as no doubt KISS would have been an amazing force with Vinnie still in the band for the 80's and beyond, the amazing albums would have been undeniable, in a way that Metallica was up to And Justice....they were the biggest underground band due to amazing albums and not giving a crap, with no airplay etc.

KISS, with their history, and more albums with Vinnie writing would definitely have been more successful, but I guess Paul and Gene chose peace.

They had their time with Ace and Peter and I don't think they were looking to have trouble again.

Trouble came back when their careers needed saving for the reunion, but they have had peace again for many years with Tommy and Eric and have never looked back.

So the obviously don't see it the way we do, and they truly don't. Gene was asked why they didn't continue with sound on Creatures for LIU (I love both, but prefer the balance and tones of LIU) and he simply said because it didn't work. He wasn't wedded to the huge sound of Creatures like we are as fans. It was a comeback statement, it didn't sell, so they tried something different, along with taking off the makeup.

It's super great we got the two VVI albums, but gee, we should have got more.

KISS kept putting out music and touring, especially touring, but after two albums and a demo EP, we got stuff all from Vinnie so it's sad in both ways that he left.

KISS didn't get as big as they could have career wise, and Vinnie got even less, when he could have had everything.

We lost both ways in the end.