Jim Crean goooooone

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:13 am

Crean has now been dropped as it was Derek and not Vinnie who selected him!

Cluster meet Fuck!

Post by **Streetbeat** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:18 am

Mike Weeks for the win!

AnkhWarrior · Post by **AnkhWarrior** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:13 am

But now the show may not even happen lol I was close to buying my flight ticket earlier, too...

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:02 pm

I have to admit that I am relieved .
That guy hasn't the pipes need for Vinnie.

Mike Weeks can save the day easily.

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:45 pm

Damn, can't take a nap with wifey without missing something.

No shock to me and expected, but given the Carmine connection, I wonder how long Carmine will stick around?

More drama than a teen girl's pajama party...

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:47 pm

AnkhWarrior wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:13 am I was close to buying my flight ticket earlier, too...

I am glad you didn't.

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:50 pm

Derek deserves to spend an eternity in hell being sodomized by midget clowns for how badly he has destroyed anything Vinnie related he is a part of.

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:14 pm

I found it odd that Jim's "credits" on the promo poster listed Mike Tramp. The last I knew, Mike Tramp was the singer of his own band.

On the bright side, anybody with a Bar/Bat Mitzvah for their son or daughter on February 8th or 9th who was wanting to hire Jim Crean and couldn't because he was doing Vinnie's gigs, well, Jim is now free.

BagBoy · Post by **BagBoy** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:04 pm

Very disappointing on many sides. I wish Vinnie had a management team that was more top notch in the handling of things in the best interests of him. I have no idea why Derek is really messing things up so badly. How do you go to getting Vinnie to appear to now Derek is pretty much in hiding himself.

I think Vinnie needs to do whats best, and of course I do hope Vinnie will come out and play.

I think the best Vinnie could do is to release some archival material. I have yet to understand why a simple download album maybe even on iTunes or even via Vinnie's website can't be achieved? A quick mock up album artwork and the tracks shouldn't be that difficult, if it sells well then look into making actual cds. It seems Vinnie has been paid well for the appearances he has done, so why not make up say 250 CDs and sell them with a bit of a mark up to make a profit and see where that goes from here.

Post by **Genebaby** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:34 pm

I was only checking out Jim's promoting of this a few hours ago, then I "heard" that he wasn't chosen by Vinnie, and now he's history.

If Vinnie needs a singer, Mike Weeks is the obvious choice, otherwise it will be an instrumental shred fest which it seems is what Vinnie wanted.

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:34 pm

Genebaby wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:34 pm I was only checking out Jim's promoting of this a few hours ago, then I "heard" that he wasn't chosen by Vinnie, and now he's history.

It had to really suck to be Jim and I am sure he did not find out in a good way. Being that some of his bookings listed on his site were at campgrounds, I am sure Jim was really looking forward to this and it was a big deal for him. He sounded excited about it.

Nobody faulted Chris for washing his hands of Vinnie over Rock and Pod. In retrospect Chris exercised the wisdom of Solomon. Many of us were willing to give second, third and even fourth chances. Vinnie has been called self-destructive to his own career many times, but in the short time of Vinnie's reappearance, Derek and Randy have possibly been far more destructive to Vinnie's career than what Vinnie ever has. Of course as bad as they have been, the ultimate blame goes to the dumb-ass who hired them. Rehiring Derek is the most dildonic thing Vinnie could have done. Derek has helped destroy any chance Vinnie had of a career rebirth.

At this point, to keep from killing off what little fan-base may be left, Vinnie might want to give up on the idea of playing live and just concentrate on new music and a book. Those will sell once they hit Amazon as people know they will get what they pay for. Otherwise, I can't see anybody in their right mind risking their hard-earned money to buy tickets to a Vinnie gig or appearance. Way too much Bravo Sierra going on.

VikingVVFan · Post by **VikingVVFan** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:06 pm

Oh the drama..
No singer and they haven't even started rehearsels yet.

SimonBFrostSr · Post by **SimonBFrostSr** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:59 pm

Yes let Mike Weeks win!

AnkhWarrior · Post by **AnkhWarrior** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:26 am

Not having even started rehearsing is a big red flag.
I have never heard of a band, whether they have been together for decades or not, NOT rehearse before a show...
Wish they would just come out and say if this is going through or not. If NOT I will understand.

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:13 am

I have never heard of a band, whether they have been together for decades or not, NOT rehearse before a show...

It is not uncommon and it happens a lot. I have done several such gigs back in the day and watched many, many such gigs. It happens all the time on the club circuit and every night here in Nashville. It is also expected of any good studio musician. Old road dogs should literally be able to form a new band and never rehearse before their first gig and would likely have a repertoire of well over a hundred songs they all knew which is more than enough for a four hour set and rotate the set every night.

Singers have the difficult challenge when no rehearsal is done. However, if it is an oldies review, country standards or pop hits type of gig, (ie, cover band) even singers can easily pull it off with no rehearsal because they will already know the lyrics.

Vinnie's music is something most would not be familiar with, and Vinnie is a perfectionist (which is his right). Still, with Carmine, Tony, Jim and Vinnie, the weakest link would actually be Vinnie not performing for so long and his ability to gel with the others. Carmine could play the KISS songs with one hand tied behind his back, but Bobby F. Rock's contributions to Vinnie's music could possibly require a couple of hours to get familiar with. Tony should have no issues with Dana's bass parts.

AnkhWarrior · Post by **AnkhWarrior** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:36 am

With what was seen in Miami, it is safe to say VV needs practicing IMO...which is why they really need to rehearse.
But with all this craziness going on, I doubt this show will happen. If it does I will be very surprised.
But doubtful.

drmoorejr · Post by **drmoorejr** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:44 am

Honestly, I think Vinnie should just flow through with these 2 concerts as a "one off" then get a new promoter and set things up how he wants for a full on tour. I am fully committed, just in tickets alone I spent close to $800 dollars. including the meet and greet. Beside, Jim Crean may not be Joe Lynn Turner and Robert Fleischman but he at least can sing. So why not?

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:12 am

AnkhWarrior wrote: ↑Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:36 am With what was seen in Miami, it is safe to say VV needs practicing IMO...which is why they really need to rehearse.

Vinnie is the weak link in his own hypothetical band. Déjà vu,

Vinnie was very nervous and insecure in Miami (may have played a part in why he wore the makeup). IMHO, his only weak playing was on "Cold Gin", but that was not a song he was contracted to play and it was a spur of the moment extra he decided to do for the audience. I was happy for Vinnie and he seemed happy at Miami in spite of his nervousness.

I can't imagine how hard it is to get back into the spotlight after such a long self-imposed exile. But, Atlanta and Miami were good first and second steps. Seems to be the third step which is the doozy.

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:54 am

drmoorejr wrote: ↑Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:44 amSo why not?

In spite of Derek being a dildo, if these concerts do not go off, Vinnie may have a very hard time finding a promoter willing to work with him in the future.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:49 am

drmoorejr wrote: ↑Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:44 am Honestly, I think Vinnie should just flow through with these 2 concerts as a "one off" then get a new promoter and set things up how he wants for a full on tour. I am fully committed, just in tickets alone I spent close to $800 dollars. including the meet and greet. Beside, Jim Crean may not be Joe Lynn Turner and Robert Fleischman but he at least can sing. So why not?

First impressions mean a lot.
You come out of the gate with road dogs on the level of Carmine and Tony...
... NOT Jim Crean !

I am all for Vinnie's vision of an instrumental jam.
With that said, I wouldn't mind seeing Mike Weeks in a three piece suit , slicked hair, and a riding crop, doing his best RF tribute. It would be like traveling back to a gig that never happened with Robert.

strangeways · Post by **strangeways** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:04 pm

There is no way I am going to a two day jam with no singer.
That was not what has been advertised.
No way.
I have not booked plane tickets or a room for these shows yet even though I have a ticket for both nights.
If he wants to perpetuate fraud on consumers there are more than enough legal channels to go through for people to attempt to get their money back.
If Vinnie is smart he will cancel these shows or get his act together quick.

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:15 pm

poserboy71 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:49 am First impressions mean a lot.
You come out of the gate with road dogs on the level of Carmine and Tony...
... NOT Jim Crean !

I won't knock Jim anymore, and I sincerely apologize for busting his chops a tiny bit earlier (I had never heard of him (which is my shortcoming, not his)). Jim is a VERY capable singer with a lot of regional exposure as well as regional awards and national exposure. Jim's version of Back on the Streets is awesome. I spent much of the day listening to Jim's stuff and I am impressed and will be buying some albums come payday.

Given that we know Derek was not offering much in the way of $$, Jim was probably doing a favor by accepting the gig. A big thank you to Jim for taking the gig and I am sorry you got douched by Vinnie.

Everybody has to draw their own line in the sand when it comes to Vinnie. For me, the way he handled Jim's firing, in such a nasty passive-aggressive way is inexcusable and shows a complete lack of class. Jim is a great singer!

Vinnie Vincent, you may have been one hell of a songwriter and were a good guitarist, but you are a miserable excuse for a human being.

[/rant}

Nothing but respect for everybody here and wishing you all Peace and Love. You are an awesome bunch of people. Out of respect for the Bossman, I edited out all of the F words.

Back to being more civil...

Every night I say a prayer in the hope that there's a heaven
But every day I'm more confused as the saints turn into sinners
All the heroes and legends I knew as a child have fallen to idols of clay
And I feel this empty place inside, so afraid that I've lost my faith

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:29 pm

strangeways wrote: ↑Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:04 pm There is no way I am going to a two day jam with no singer.

The only thing that made The Grateful Dead's excessive jams tolerable was the audience was always stoned.

strangeways wrote: ↑Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:04 pmI have not booked plane tickets or a room for these shows yet even though I have a ticket for both nights.

Anybody who has bought non-refundable plane tickets and still wants to visit TN if the Vinnie gigs get canceled, drop me a PM. I can tell you the deets on awesome shows you can attend on the 8th and the 9th, and I think it is only $50 for the weekend. Country and Oldies Rock with a big name artist. You will enjoy it. Meet and Greet with the artist after the show on the 9th. No additional charge for the meet and greet or autographs.

1031 · Post by **1031** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:15 pm

strangeways · Post by **strangeways** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:43 pm

Jim is still being touted as the singer for these gigs in some circles ....

geepee16 · Post by **geepee16** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:46 pm

I have seen that as well. Either the Internet is slow to catch up, or maybe we have it wrong here? I'm sure it is probably the former.
Perhaps Jim is too stunned to announce it, especially considering how much positive feedback he got from the announcement that he was performing.

Does Derek have an official web presence?
Is Vinnie on Facebook?
Is there anything in the loca l paper down there in Tennessee about this? A press release? An announcement from a ticketing agency? Anything?

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:06 pm

geepee16 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:46 pm Perhaps Jim is too stunned to announce it, especially considering how much positive feedback he got from the announcement that he was performing.

AFAIK, Carmine and Tony have already signed contracts and given the nature of Vinnie, probably have some hefty NDAesque clauses and they may not be able to say anything.

Whether Jim is under contract, I do not know. Either way, Jim's best move is to keep quiet. If it all falls apart, he is as far removed as possible and has no legitimate blame. If the event goes off, it is a win for Jim. Either way, Jim is going to be seen as taking the high road.

Jim has toured with Carmine and Vinny. That is a damn good gig, but since Carmine & Vinny never disappeared, and there was no controversy, the tour(s) were not in the spotlight. The gigs with Vinnie, because of Vinnie's seclusion and because of all of the controversy, is putting the gigs in the spotlight and this has the potential to be VERY big for Jim and his career because of the exposure.

If Jim is under contract, too, and Vinnie does not want to do the show... Well, Vinnie never seemed to learn the old adage "The show must go on". Find another guitarist (Nashville is filled with guitarists and 80s metal guitarists) and put on a VVI tribute show. Vinnie is the weakest link in this line-up.

To my knowledge, there has NEVER been national discussion or focus on a concert at Rocketown. Prince did play the previous location for Rocketown in '04, but the Internet was not as popular back then. If it ends up getting canceled, perhaps Rocketown can do some "Vinnie Did Not Play Here" shirts to raise some funds to cover the $$ they would have made had the gigs happened.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:54 pm

I don't see how "What If" scenarios can make anything different here.
I believe it is really harsh to name Vinnie as the weakest link at HIS show. Carmine and Tony seem to have been on the clinic circuit for quite some time now.
This is Vinnie's PUT-UP-OR-SHUT UP moment.
He wasn't going to show what he can do in Florida.
The fact that he wants to make the concert a jam is interesting and tells me he is confident in his playing.
The best thing we can do is just let things happen and not poke insults at anyone.
I'm not into hearsay. I am ready to hear Vinnie play when he is ready.

The costs incurred by fans in anticipation of this have hit most of us and it does suck.
It's a chance all of us take with any event we have to travel to.
We shall see what tomorrow brings.

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:08 pm

poserboy71 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:54 pm He wasn't going to show what he can do in Florida.

I think he did a very good job of showing what he can do in Florida. I still do not know why people have an issue with his playing in Florida (or Atlanta for that matter). I was extremely impressed with the Atlanta playing and loved the arrangements.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:09 am

Kuron wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:08 pm
poserboy71 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:54 pm He wasn't going to show what he can do in Florida.
I think he did a very good job of showing what he can do in Florida. I still do not know why people have an issue with his playing in Florida (or Atlanta for that matter). I was extremely impressed with the Atlanta playing and loved the arrangements.

We are focusing on the shredding aspect of his playing.

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:01 am

poserboy71 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:09 am We are focusing on the shredding aspect of his playing.

I am focusing on what actually happened. Based on his performances he has actually done, the conjecture he can't shred anymore is nothing short of asinine, yet has prevailed since he reappeared.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:43 am

Kuron wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:01 am
poserboy71 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:09 am We are focusing on the shredding aspect of his playing.

I am focusing on what actually happened. Based on his performances he has actually done, the conjecture he can't shred anymore is nothing short of asinine, yet has prevailed since he reappeared.

To even insinuate that my actions are asinine is preposterous.
You are missing the point .
Vinnie has said quite clearly in the past (I believe he even mentioned it in Atlanta or on the Decibel Geek Podcast) that it would take certain dollar equivalents for him to actually play.
I believe he was speaking about why he didn't play during the '96 conventions .

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:50 am

Rick,
I don't think Kuron was talking about you when he said Asinine. Kuron is correct that all over the internet people believe that Vinnie can't shred anymore because he hasn't to date. Kuron is saying that he thinks that for people to speculate that Vinnie can't play anymore is asinine

Luv
Kev

strangeways · Post by **strangeways** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:10 am

poserboy71 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:54 pm It's a chance all of us take with any event we have to travel to.

Completely and totally untrue.
Vinnie should've had all of this worked out before a single ticket was sold.

youngnwasted · Post by **youngnwasted** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:34 am

Kuron wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:06 pm
geepee16 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:46 pm Perhaps Jim is too stunned to announce it, especially considering how much positive feedback he got from the announcement that he was performing.

AFAIK, Carmine and Tony have already signed contracts and given the nature of Vinnie, probably have some hefty NDAesque clauses and they may not be able to say anything.

Whether Jim is under contract, I do not know. Either way, Jim's best move is to keep quiet. If it all falls apart, he is as far removed as possible and has no legitimate blame. If the event goes off, it is a win for Jim. Either way, Jim is going to be seen as taking the high road.

Jim has toured with Carmine and Vinny. That is a damn good gig, but since Carmine & Vinny never disappeared, and there was no controversy, the tour(s) were not in the spotlight. The gigs with Vinnie, because of Vinnie's seclusion and because of all of the controversy, is putting the gigs in the spotlight and this has the potential to be VERY big for Jim and his career because of the exposure.

If Jim is under contract, too, and Vinnie does not want to do the show... Well, Vinnie never seemed to learn the old adage "The show must go on". Find another guitarist (Nashville is filled with guitarists and 80s metal guitarists) and put on a VVI tribute show. Vinnie is the weakest link in this line-up.

To my knowledge, there has NEVER been national discussion or focus on a concert at Rocketown. Prince did play the previous location for Rocketown in '04, but the Internet was not as popular back then. If it ends up getting canceled, perhaps Rocketown can do some "Vinnie Did Not Play Here" shirts to raise some funds to cover the $$ they would have made had the gigs happened.

They should have gotten Mick Mars had they known this was gonna happen. He lives in Nashville.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:41 am

Slayer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:50 am Rick,
I don't think Kuron was talking about you when he said Asinine. Kuron is correct that all over the internet people believe that Vinnie can't shred anymore because he hasn't to date. Kuron is saying that he thinks that for people to speculate that Vinnie can't play anymore is asinine

Luv
Kev

I can see it that way.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:44 am

strangeways wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:10 am
poserboy71 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:54 pm It's a chance all of us take with any event we have to travel to.
Completely and totally untrue.
Vinnie should've had all of this worked out before a single ticket was sold.

Correction...
A good promoter would have had everything worked out before tickets went on sale.
A good promoter tastes the goods before he distributes the candy.

geepee16 · Post by **geepee16** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:06 am

If the talent (i.e., performer) is not totally committed there is little a promoter can do. Vinnie would have gotten promotional help with a call to Eddie Trunk (for example), who would have cheered and supported him. When you have a movie, album or concert coming up, you (the talent) are out there adding your voice to it. Guests on most talk shows / call-in shows have something happening. I don't think this Derek guy is much good, but Vinnie needed to wave his flag a bit, too. So far, all of the promotional material (With the exception of VV's voice-over) could have been done on PowerPoint. This was not a very good effort all-around.

youngnwasted · Post by **youngnwasted** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:11 am

poserboy71 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:44 am
strangeways wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:10 am
poserboy71 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:54 pm It's a chance all of us take with any event we have to travel to.
Completely and totally untrue.
Vinnie should've had all of this worked out before a single ticket was sold.
Correction...
A good promoter would have had everything worked out before tickets went on sale.
A good promoter tastes the goods before he distributes the candy.

You can have the best promoter possible and Vinnie will fuck it up. A good promoter would never deal with Vinnie anyhow.

youngnwasted · Post by **youngnwasted** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:22 am

geepee16 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:06 am If the talent (i.e., performer) is not totally committed there is little a promoter can do. Vinnie would have gotten promotional help with a call to Eddie Trunk (for example), who would have cheered and supported him. When you have a movie, album or concert coming up, you (the talent) are out there adding your voice to it. Guests on most talk shows / call-in shows have something happening. I don't think this Derek guy is much good, but Vinnie needed to wave his flag a bit, too. So far, all of the promotional material (With the exception of VV's voice-over) could have been done on PowerPoint. This was not a very good effort all-around.

Couldn't agree with you more! Vinnie is more than likely demanding all things impossible from Derek. Do this or else.... Vinnie's fault all the way for not promoting it in interviews. Just goes to show he had no real intent to do this.

Post by **Streetbeat** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:33 am

True, zero effort!

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:30 am

Slayer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:50 am I don't think Kuron was talking about you when he said Asinine. Kuron is correct that all over the internet people believe that Vinnie can't shred anymore because he hasn't to date. Kuron is saying that he thinks that for people to speculate that Vinnie can't play anymore is asinine

100% correct.

There are lots of things to get pissed at Vinnie over or speculate on -- his ability to still play is not one of them. Short of disease or injuries a musician does not lose their ability to play. It is common to be slower and less precise as you age, but even that is usually down to arthritis or memory issues.

It is not uncommon to forget how a song goes, but it is extremely uncommon to forget how to play. Glen Campbell is a good example of this. On his farewell tour, there were times he would forget the solo (which was not always the same in the old days, anyway), yet he was still able to improvise a solo you had never heard before. At that point the disease had NOT robbed his ability to play, it had only robbed his memory of how a song went and whether he had already played it that night.

It is the non-musicians who are speculating whether Vinnie can still play or not. You can NOT touch a guitar for 15-20 years, pick one up, noodle around for two hours and go out and perform a passable gig. Your fingers will hurt like hell, you may have some speed and dexterity issues from not playing for so long, but you will be fine from the audience perspective. I am speaking from direct experience on this. I can also speak from direct experience, that five different injuries to your hand and an injury to your elbow severely affect your playing and cause you problems.

Vinnie's performance in Atlanta: AFAIK, it was not contracted. It was impromptu. It was also NOT his guitar which is a biggie for us musicians. There is a cosmic law which states that anytime you unexpectedly play a foreign guitar, it is going to be owned by somebody with hands strong enough to squeeze water from rocks. The action is going to be high and the string gauge is going to be thick. This makes the guitar much harder to play. Vinnie's playing was fine and he had some interesting arrangements -- he was NOT simply playing the "electric version" on an acoustic. To me it was very inspiring.

Vinnie's Miami performance: There was nothing wrong with his playing. Cold Gin was not contracted and it was an extra thrown in. I do think he could have played the solo and not given away too much (for lack of a better phrase) as we are talking Cold Gin. There is a night and day difference between the technical complexity of VVI songs and Cold Gin. If you watch his playing that night, there are no signs of dexterity issues, no grimaces when moving his hand to a different chord which would be a sign of hand pain.

Both appearances, Vinnie did music he was not contracted to play. Just because he did not shred, people think he can't play. Vinnie waiting to shred is his own choice. Personally, I could care less if he ever shreds again. If he does, people who can't play guitar are just going to find some other imaginary reason to pick on his playing. I guess next will be Vinnie can't play anymore because he is wearing the wrong kind of socks.

Shredding... I will go with this definition "a fairly subjective cultural term used by guitarists and enthusiasts of guitar music" as it seems the most accurate as to the way the term is used today. I grew up around country and bluegrass music. I was exposed to "shredding" long before people started "shredding" on electric guitars with a wall of distortion (often used to cover up their shitty playing). Shredding rarely impresses me. Vinnie and Eddie are the main two that did. I do not think I am alone either, as any rock concert I go to, people always take bathroom breaks during the guitar solo.

As I said before, everybody has to draw their own line in the sand with Vinnie. For me that was the "firing" of Jim. Damn good singer and I would take him over Robert in his prime and I would take him over Mark now. But even with Vinnie crossing that line for me, the only bad I will currently say about Vinnie is he showed a complete lack of class in how Jim was handled, and I think he is a dumbass for rehiring Derek.

strangeways · Post by **strangeways** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:43 am

Kuron wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:30 am Everybody has to draw their own line in the sand with Vinnie. For me that was the "firing" of Jim and I think he is a dumb ass for rehiring Derek.

I agree with this. This whole thing has gotten way out of control and the fact that the promoter will not reply to emails and that tickets have not been mailed to paying customers as stated is a issue. Let's face it, this whole thing has been botched and those that are the most loyal to Vinnie are now going to get messed over by it.

It went from two nights acoustic in Memphis w/Mark to
two nights half acoustic half electric in Memphis to
all electric in Memphis
to canceled and moved to Nashville for two nights with Carmine, Tony and Mark to
Mark cancels
to no one can get a hold of this promoter to
Jim added as singer to
Jim supposedly fired as singer to
no rehearsals as a band unit yet to
tickets not mailed out and no more tickets being sold.....

fraudunit@nashville.gov

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:51 am

strangeways wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:10 am
poserboy71 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:54 pm It's a chance all of us take with any event we have to travel to.
Completely and totally untrue.
Vinnie should've had all of this worked out before a single ticket was sold.

The show must go on. You do not cancel a gig. Several months back, I saw one of my idols Ronnie Milsap for the first time ever and given his age, probably the only time ever. Ronnie was had a horrible cold and in his talking and singing, you could tell how bad his throat was hurting and how congested he was and we all know how miserable that is. His singing was obviously very affected, but he still sang, and being one hell of a piano player you could just focus on the piano playing if the vocals bothered you. If anybody deserved to cancel a gig, it was Ronnie. He was in misery. But the show went on and I am glad it did. Although I would have understood, I would have still been heartbroken.

A full acoustic night, then an acoustic night and a shred night. Nah, no Graceland, lets do a gig at an indoor kids skate park. With Robert. No, Robert, a new vocalist and full shred. No vocalist, just instrumental. You would think with a 30 year hiatus, he might have just once thought about how he wanted an "I'm Still Alive" show to go. Vinnie needs proper management and somebody who can reign him in and keep him focused and whack him with a wiffle ball bat when needed. The excuses and mind-changing are getting bizarre.

This saga would have been an unbelievable episodic skit on SNL back in the day with Chris Farley playing the shady promoter.

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:29 pm

youngnwasted wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:34 am They should have gotten Mick Mars had they known this was gonna happen. He lives in Nashville.

There is such a talent pool here. Even on the non-national level. There are a lot of local guys I remember from the 80s in Florida here in Nashville. I guess for us old musicians, moving to Nashville is the equivalent of salmon swimming upstream to their place of birth to die.

geepee16 wrote:I don't think this Derek guy is much good, but Vinnie needed to wave his flag a bit, too.

This has been an Army-level Charlie Foxtrot since it started. Your artist can be vapid, you just need a legitimate promoter and legitimate manager to handle the details.

There is such wasted opportunity here for Vinnie to be touring and making some money to improve his quality of life for retirement. I think anything overseas is out of the question, not for the no flying issue, but more from not wanting to be away from his critters for so long and I totally get that. But just touring here in the states, he could do well for himself.

We are all our own worst enemy, but Vinnie does seem to take it to a whole 'nother level. Derek only exacerbates Vinnie's issues.

strangeways · Post by **strangeways** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:32 pm

Kuron wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:51 am The show must go on. You do not cancel a gig.

Sorry, but no. That's not always the way to go.
For instance, I saw Ratt at the Aracada last year and I would've preferred that it was canceled.
Steven Pearcy was a mess and knew it and did nothing to make the situation better. He claimed that he had knee problems but he knew that before booking the tour and heading out and self medicating himself into a stupor.
When this show is this messed up it's time to call it a day and not screw over your most loyal supporters.
Of course, that does not seem to be the way of Vinnie.
And make no mistake this is on him. HE hired this guy and then sat back and watched it all happen.
I hope the gigs go off as planned and people get their fair share of a proper show.
This isn't a case of Vinnie being ill and not being able to perform at 100%.
This is a case of outright fraudulent behavior by an artist and a promoter.
These people have known for quite awhile what they promised and everything should've been in place.
Your example of Ronnie Milsap is nice but doesn't apply here. That is an artist that had a band together, booked a show and was ill but already had all the particulars in place (venue, band etc.).
This as you yourself pointed out is comedy of epic proportions.
All it would really take is for this promoter to come out and answer some emails to ease the fears of those that already have bought tickets.
That isn't happening and everyone is left to wonder what the hell is going on.
Fans were promised a band performance and not some open ended jam.

Kuron · Post by **Kuron** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:11 pm

poserboy71 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:41 am
Slayer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:50 am Rick,
I don't think Kuron was talking about you when he said Asinine. Kuron is correct that all over the internet people believe that Vinnie can't shred anymore because he hasn't to date. Kuron is saying that he thinks that for people to speculate that Vinnie can't play anymore is asinine

Luv
Kev
I can see it that way.

Kev is correct in his interpretation. I am sorry for phrasing my words in a way that caused personal offense. That was not my intent. Please feel free to whack me with the idiot stick my wife uses when I do something wrong.

Thank you to Kev.

strangeways wrote: Steven Pearcy was a mess and knew it and did nothing to make the situation better. He claimed that he had knee problems but he knew that before booking the tour and heading out and self medicating himself into a stupor.
When this show is this messed up it's time to call it a day and not screw over your most loyal supporters.

I am a RATT fan, at least the earlier albums, but I would not go to a RATT show even before that happened. Pearcy has a history of substance abuse and shitty shows and is a mixed bag when it comes to what nights he can actually sing.

Speaking as a disabled vet with really bad knees, who has lived in chronic pain since '87 and NEVER takes anything stronger than ibuprofen, the worst my knees affect a gig is I sometimes sit on a stool.

strangeways wrote:And make no mistake this is on him. HE hired this guy and then sat back and watched it all happen.

I do not disagree. As I said elsewhere, Vinnie was a dumbass for rehiring Derek. It was the most dildonic thing that Vinnie could have possible done.

Vinnie is not capable of handling anything. He needs good and strong management that will keep Vinnie's best interests first and foremost, yet still keep him inline. All of this stuff should be the manager and the promoter hammering things out. It is really messed up if the artist is this involved. Many artists are perfectly capable of self-managing, but Vinnie isn't.

Personally, I would not recommend anybody buying tickets to the events at this point. The mind changing alone would scare me off. Wifey and I have a set show we go to every year for Valentine's Day. This year it is on the 8th and 9th, so I am not free. But, if I was, I would not be going. I was interested in the acoustic show at Graceland and would be interested in a show with Robert or Jim if the mind-changing hadn't gone on. Just way too risky $$-wise. And if you buy tickets for an event with a singer, that is what you should be getting. Many people, have carry-over tickets from the original Graceland acoustic gigs with Robert. I have never seen something so unbelievably screwed up. You need a damn flow chart or a Venn diagram to keep track of this shit, so much is changing.

ZachAttack · Post by **ZachAttack** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:18 am

Kuron wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:01 am
poserboy71 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:09 am We are focusing on the shredding aspect of his playing.

I am focusing on what actually happened. Based on his performances he has actually done, the conjecture he can't shred anymore is nothing short of asinine, yet has prevailed since he reappeared.

It's because when he did that Expo in Sweden he wouldn't even play the Lick It Up "solo", and then did the same thing at that Four By Fate show. No one has seen him play a solo in public since 1988

Post by **Genebaby** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:32 am

And now nobody probably ever will, sadly.

For all intents and purposes he did not really play in Sweden all those years ago. His guitar was so low on the mix of did not matter, he was just basically miming with the band.

He was turned up properly in Miami last year but chose to not solo for some reason.

I guess the idea was to save it for his own show, but now we may never know.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:05 am

He did play the LIU solo but a hint of shred...even if at just the ending of Cold Gin would have been the frosting on the cake. Can't understand why he didn't give a tease?