How would KISS have done in the 80's had Vinnie not gone AWOL?

[SerpentRider]

If KISS had thrown out that 2nd contract for Vinnie (he signed the 1st one) and just kept him on the same deal he signed for COTN, how well would KISS have done in the 80's?

Its clear Mark didn't cut it in the band. Bruce added stability but that's it. Gene was basically AWOL as well from KISS. Paul sure couldn't do it on his own.

When one looks back on albums like Animalize-Hot In The Shade, Kiss was just putting out average at best material. Nothing came close to the greatness that was on "Creatures" or "Lick It Up".


Were are you happy Vinnie went AWOL so we could get "Invasion", "All Systems Go" and "Guitarmageddon" or do you wish he had stayed in KISS and saved them?

Were you thrilled he returned for Revenge? Should he have played on the album like Gene wanted? Should they have replaced Bruce with Vinnie then? Should the entire album just have been Vinnie/Gene & Vinnie/Paul co-writes?

[Genebaby]

It's a tough question as no doubt KISS would have been an amazing force with Vinnie still in the band for the 80's and beyond, the amazing albums would have been undeniable, in a way that Metallica was up to And Justice....they were the biggest underground band due to amazing albums and not giving a crap, with no airplay etc.

KISS, with their history, and more albums with Vinnie writing would definitely have been more successful, but I guess Paul and Gene chose peace.

They had their time with Ace and Peter and I don't think they were looking to have trouble again.

Trouble came back when their careers needed saving for the reunion, but they have had peace again for many years with Tommy and Eric and have never looked back.

So the obviously don't see it the way we do, and they truly don't. Gene was asked why they didn't continue with sound on Creatures for LIU (I love both, but prefer the balance and tones of LIU) and he simply said because it didn't work. He wasn't wedded to the huge sound of Creatures like we are as fans. It was a comeback statement, it didn't sell, so they tried something different, along with taking off the makeup.

It's super great we got the two VVI albums, but gee, we should have got more.

KISS kept putting out music and touring, especially touring, but after two albums and a demo EP, we got stuff all from Vinnie so it's sad in both ways that he left.

KISS didn't get as big as they could have career wise, and Vinnie got even less, when he could have had everything.

We lost both ways in the end.

[strangeways]

If KISS had thrown out that 2nd contract for Vinnie (he signed the 1st one) and just kept him on the same deal he signed for COTN, how well would KISS have done in the 80's?

Incredible.
They would have led the pack.
It was amazing how utterly perfect Vinnie fit in Kiss. Not just in his guitar playing but in the way he filled the shoes of each member songwriting wise. Vinnie was able to provide what each member needed in the co-writing department. When co-writing with Gene Vinnie was able to was able provide the Paul Stanley element and when writing with Paul Vinnie was able to provide the Gene element.

The band having drifted apart in the co-writing department - most tunes being penned strictly by one member or another dividing tunes into ‘Gene’ songs or Paul songs.

Vinnie filled the void that had been there since the Love Gun era. Suddenly Kiss felt like a band again. Vinnie filling the void that was left not just by Ace in terms of guitar playing but of each member in terms of songwriting.

No longer was it totally necessary for Gene and Paul to HAVE to write together if they didn’t want to.
Vinnie now able to fill the void of each songwriter as if they were and yet still have it be totally Vinnie, and totally Kiss.

They would have led the pack instead of floundering somewhat after Vinnie left.

Its clear Mark didn't cut it in the band.
Bruce added stability but that's it.
Gene was basically AWOL as well from KISS.
Paul sure couldn't do it on his own.

Yes, yes, yes and yes.

When one looks back on albums like Animalize-Hot In The Shade, Kiss was just putting out average at best material.
Nothing came close to the greatness that was on "Creatures" or "Lick It Up".

Correct.
Here is my take on Animalize Vinnie Vincent style....
https://www.vvforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=8498

Were are you happy Vinnie went AWOL so we could get "Invasion", "All Systems Go" and "Guitarmageddon" or do you wish he had stayed in KISS and saved them?

Was not happy, but I understood.
I wish he had stayed, but I was more than happy to champion him outside of Kiss while still supporting Kiss.

Were you thrilled he returned for Revenge?

Yes.

Should he have played on the album like Gene wanted?
Should they have replaced Bruce with Vinnie then?
Should the entire album just have been Vinnie/Gene & Vinnie/Paul co-writes?

Yes, yes and yes.

[strangeways]

We lost both ways in the end.

Agreed.

I wish that Vinnie at least would have stuck around for one more album.

He would have had an actual era attributed to him.