Freedom Rocks

Riverlioness · Post by **Riverlioness** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:57 am

I am here because you have the free speech to set up a forum, and I have the free speech to defend my point of view, as well. Let us see if we truly have something in common, which is a fundamental respect of freedom.

I should clarify, I am not defending Vinnie Vincent so much as the principle, "innocent until proven guilty." From the trial of Socrates to the Salem Witch Trials, history has justified living this standard.

It is not a position of certainty, but ambiguity. Admitting to "not knowing" is an ethic unto itself. Athenian science was fundamentally established on the philosophy that certitude is the root cause of many of the world's problems.

Essentially, I was not there during Mr. and Mrs. Cusano's conflict. I am not on the jury, weighing photographs.

Take this opportunity to expose yourself to a different point of view. The goal of argument isn't always to win, but to enlighten or be enlightened.

You are people,too, although we disagree. Perhaps we may stop laughing at one another and spatting, and actually listen.

Peace.

Brooklyn_Born · Post by **Brooklyn_Born** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:59 am

I'm listening...

Welcome to the VVFF

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:25 am

Very impressed that you came here and even more impressed that you have the humanity to act civil.

We have always had the "wait and see" approach in regards to the recent accused altercation between the Cusanos. I don't believe we have ever strayed from this viewpoint and eagerly await December for the court date that will address this. We have always expressed concern for both parties in this situation even though Vinnie's rants lean on the disrespectful side towards Diane.

As for Vinnie's other actions, WELL, they speak for themselves.

To be honest, if the other DoubleV members would've come here with the same demeanor as you just did, things would have been so much better for everyone including Vinnie.

Much respect to Riverlioness.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:33 am

Nice you are here but just ad much as you were not their during the cusano bust up, you were not their when Athenian science was started up.

Brooklyn_Born · Post by **Brooklyn_Born** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:35 am

It's all Greek to me! Opa!

birnie · Post by **birnie** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:44 am

Howdy River, welcome aboard.
Looking forward to your posts

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:52 am

Yes, sorry for my hostility. I have a thing about history. I don't believe it. Sorry, I do undestand that you were making a point , and I get you. Look forward to hearing from you.

Post by **Genebaby** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:11 am

Thanks for stopping by River, very nice post.

Would you consider it undeniably a fact that Vincent Cusano lied to the world when he claimed all charges were false and that they were dropped?

Do you consider that to be the truth of the matter?

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:20 am

I understand what you are trying to say, but it just doesn't hold water:
From the public report listing Mrs. Cusano's account of the incident, her obvious injuries at the time, the restraining order issued, the irrefutable fact that MR. Cusano LIED that all charges against him had been dropped AND that in December he will not be acquitted/absolved but have the charges wiped from the records assuming he has fulfilled his court ordered obligations.

He will not be proven innocent in December, he will not be exonerated in December, he will simply not be prosecuted. None of that equates to innocence.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:21 am

doublev2 wrote:Yes, sorry for my hostility. I have a thing about history. I don't believe it. Sorry, I do undestand that you were making a point , and I get you. Look forward to hearing from you.

Get used to Dino apologizing.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:43 am

Yeah. Get fucking used to it. Sorry for my language.

ankh · Post by **ankh** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:24 am

Hi, RL.Please bear with me.

In the world we live in, especially the western culture-for many reasons i wouldn't call it civilization-there's a certain system that works based on hype and fame.Once you get in, for any reason you do it , it is difficult to get out.No matter what's your idea about it,because otherwise the whole fickle world of "celebrities" would fall down like a castle made by playng cards.Therefore- you like it or not- whatever you do will be talked about,over and over.I find it horrible, but that's the flip side of the whole celebrity thing.
Another flip side is that- no matter if you choose it or not- the people who are out of this scenario will get noticed of whatever happens to any celebrities of present and past.Case in point, the private nude pic of Liz Taylor that surfaced just after her death.Everything is splattered all over the net.Then it is up to the individual to actively follow this or not.

I came here to know if there was more music from Vinnie, no matter the genre, since many people have pointed out that his two invasion records didn't give the whole picture of his musicianship.I wanted to know a bit more about the musician, his gear and his outlook on music,both from a player and a songwriter point of view.I'm sure that was the reason why many people were on the former forum and this one were there too.Even if by the wayside, we were sucked in a whole scenario of madness, even if it wasn't our choice.At least , for sure it wasn't mine.But i have a feeling that many shared this outlook.Maybe i'm wrong.

Since day one i've always considered Vinnie private life private.Like i do with everybody else.Yet, one day
i've read the news about their family quarrel, seen the mugshot.Since press like to expose what will reach the headlines, i've preferred to wait until there was something a bit more certain, like it is happened with the dog situation.I also know for sure that many situations can take a whole different angle based on the perspective and how they are presented to people.Since basically it is none of my business i don't think about it, for al the reasons i've explained here.Private it's private.That's my outlook on this.

But for all the reasons explained before- freedom of speech included-many people have made their own opinion about it,like happens wtih everything we are exposed to.Yet many people here have stated many times that-even if they have their own opinion- thy are based on partial evidence.I don't think that-contrary to someone's opinion- here anybody hates Vinnie and are ready to point fingers.Many-based on their direct experience- don't accept the way he behaves towards his fans,and they have proof to validate their opinion.Unfortunately.And many here have had their fingers burned tryng to help him- for free.I wish many people would be this lucky.
I'm also sure that whatever will happen in vinnie private life will not change based on fans opinion.

Like you've said,there's freedom of speech and different point of views based on what they know.It may be right or wrong-simply because they don't know any better-,it is not up to anybody but the person who have the whole evidence to judge.I'm sure that ,even if there's disagreement,it is possible to see both perspectives.

For me-since i can only talk about myself- everything that crosses the private life it is none of my business and therefore of no further interest.Especially if come to know about it from the media.I wasn't there, i don't know squat about thr whole subject- there's probably alot more, like in everybody's life- but it is none of my business.The comments that i've made in the past bout some of the vinnie actions were only about things out of his private sphere.

Sorry if it was long and a bit boring.Would like to hear more from your point of view.

Peace.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:49 am

Riverlioness great to see you here. I've always hoped we could build a bridge between the banks of the Vinnie "river" and happily meet in the middle!

Bit soppy I know! But I really am a big softie!

Post by **Genebaby** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:57 am

I am hoping you will be returning to continue the discussion!

Riverlioness · Post by **Riverlioness** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:38 am

doublev2 wrote:Nice you are here but just ad much as you were not their during the cusano bust up, you were not their when Athenian science was started up.

You are correct. Eratosthenes is the name of the Athenian scientist. I didn't aknowledge my source. It was sloppy writing. I wrote that message in between classes, and I forgot his name. I wasn't there in 230 BC, and the ethics of uncertainty is Eratosthenes' philosophy, not mine. Good catch.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:22 am

I blame Gerard Butler!

Riverlioness · Post by **Riverlioness** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:26 pm

Genebaby wrote:Thanks for stopping by River, very nice post.

Would you consider it undeniably a fact that Vincent Cusano lied to the world when he claimed all charges were false and that they were dropped?

Do you consider that to be the truth of the matter?

Thank you for welcoming me. Were those the charges of domestic violence or cruelty to animals? If I remember correctly, Vinnie wrote one letter claiming his innocence, and released a statement that the cruelty to animals charges were dropped.

How many rock stars have a reputation for being bad boys? If he were a mayor or a trusted elected official whose reputation is important to making ethical decisions, an incentive to lie would exist. How many rock stars have said, "I have a problem destroying my life, and the lives of others", paid their debt to society, gone into treatment, wrote a song about it, and it's old news? It's better for artist relations to admit to problems. I don't see why he would lie. It's not as if Axl Rose never attended anger management.

I don't know about undeniable facts of this case. I wish I had a built in lie radar. It would make life so much easier.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:40 pm

Riverlioness wrote: How many rock stars have said, "I have a problem destroying my life, and the lives of others", paid their debt to society, gone into treatment, wrote a song about it, and it's old news? It's better for artist relations to admit to problems.

Truer word never spoken! But................still waiting for the Vinman to do so!

Vinnie's youtube page stated that the assult charges were dropped (now removed)? The false dog charges WERE dropped which is great to hear! Members here even contacted the pet abuse site asking for Vinnie to be romoved form their site as ALL charges were indeed dropped! Sadly, just looking at the site, his mugshot is still up!!!

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:04 pm

Welcome Riverlioness,
You and the other DoubleV Forum Members are all welcome here to engage in positive debate without the need for a victory but rather victory being learning something new from a different vantage or perspective and gaining mutual respect. I like what Andrew wrote about building a bridge and meeting halfway while nurturing the things that we can agree on while not dwelling and fueding on the things we can't agree on. Many of us really have our own experiences with Mr. Cusano that speak for themselves and here at this forum we have shared and illustrated the facts for all to see. With that said your posts have been thought provoking and classy and I look forward to your future contibutions. I most sincerely hope that Mr. Cusano doesn't retaliate against you for posting here by banning you from the DoubleV Forum. Sadly, this has happened to many loyal Vinnie Fans and you have posted nothing to deserve this reaction. Understand, that if Cusano does this that we will have your back and hold him accountable here for his actions because you have done nothing wrong by posting here!

Brooklyn_Born · Post by **Brooklyn_Born** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:19 pm

Exactly!

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:07 am

yes, welcome. really great to speak to you

Riverlioness · Post by **Riverlioness** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:56 am

shramiac wrote:
Riverlioness wrote: How many rock stars have said, "I have a problem destroying my life, and the lives of others", paid their debt to society, gone into treatment, wrote a song about it, and it's old news? It's better for artist relations to admit to problems.

Truer word never spoken! But................still waiting for the Vinman to do so!

Vinnie's youtube page stated that the assult charges were dropped (now removed)? The false dog charges WERE dropped which is great to hear! Members here even contacted the pet abuse site asking for Vinnie to be romoved form their site as ALL charges were indeed dropped! Sadly, just looking at the site, his mugshot is still up!!!

You've misunderstood my argument, and I needed a topic sentence to make it clearer. Vinnie Vincent doesn't have the motivation to lie.

You have the power to do good deeds. Although the site still chooses to post his mugshot, your effort was noteworthy.

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:58 am

I think you'll find that you are quite wrong in assuming that Vinnie Vincent doesn't have 'motivation to lie.' He has every motive to lie. He has stolen money & time from people who have been waiting 15 years to receive their 'Vinnie Vincent box set Achieves'. He has LIED (this documented on this site) about charges being dropped for his most recent publicity televised Wife Beating. He has taken guitars from probably the only person on the planet who would deal with him, Tom Palecki. Of course he has motivation to lie. And these few examples are just that. A few of them. The list of reasons that Vinnie Vincent finds the need to lie is as long as your arm. Please peruse this site that your leisure & you encounter numerous examples of reasons why Vinnie Vincent has 'motivation to lie.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:21 am

metatron wrote:I think you'll find that you are quite wrong in assuming that Vinnie Vincent doesn't have 'motivation to lie.' He has every motive to lie. He has stolen money & time from people who have been waiting 15 years to receive their 'Vinnie Vincent box set Achieves'. He has LIED (this documented on this site) about charges being dropped for his most recent publicity televised Wife Beating. He has taken guitars from probably the only person on the planet who would deal with him, Tom Palecki. Of course he has motivation to lie. And these few examples are just that. A few of them. The list of reasons that Vinnie Vincent finds the need to lie is as long as your arm. Please peruse this site that your leisure & you encounter numerous examples of reasons why Vinnie Vincent has 'motivation to lie.

This is fact and well documented here for all that wish to read and see for themselves. My wife purchased the Vinnie Vincent Archives as a gift for me as I was a fan and after patiently waiting for a year to receive the goods that were paid for asked for refund and said that we would re-order the product when and if it ever became available only to recieve a response from Vinnie refusing to provide a refund and that "all sales were final". My wife ordered the Vinnie Vincent Archives in 1997 understanding from his website that the product was completed and ready to ship immediately. We both patiently waited an entire year before asking for our money back. Others here have similar and different experiences with Mr. Cusano which he steadfastly refuses to acknowledge or address yet he did these things and is 100% responsible for.

Kev

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:30 am

The real fact is that we the 'fans' have no motivation to lie about our fallen hero. Why would I or any one on this site want to discredit the person (Vinnie Vincent) that we are all bonded by. It would make no sense. It would be a futile exercise. But the facts are the facts. We choose not to bury our heads in the sand & state the facts. What ever way the cards fall, for the good & for the bad, we state the facts.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:38 pm

Only thing I can say would be that he believes he's telling the truth???

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:49 pm

Riverlioness I don't understand your 'matter of fact' style. Please explain why you say vinnie doesn't lie?
Do you know him or something?

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:38 pm

Riverlioness,
I can admit that I don't know ALL the facts about Vinnie.
I can admit that some of my current opinion on Vinnie as a person is based on stories from others.
I can admit that I have said some inappropriate, mean spirited things out of frustration and anger.

Can you admit that the following are facts:
- Vinnie in effect "stole" money from all the people who bought the box set? (Me being one of them.) If he had financial difficulties and his business folded, any kind of note of apology for people's monetary loss and explanation would have changed the entire situation. Instead he chose to ignore his fans, so a bankruptcy issue became fraud.
- Vinnie lied about the domestic abuse case being dropped and being acquitted of all charges. It is matter of public record that he is ordered to attend anger management classes which, if attended, will result in the state not pursuing any punishment. This process is in no way the state clearing him of the charges.
- Vinnie is lying about Tom Palecki being the luthier for his line of guitars. Tom has stated publicly that he has been cut out. There is no gray area here.

To conclude:
If Vinnie had "stolen" your money and publicly lied about something so important and then you heard dozens of other people recounting their own stories of how Vinnie had wronged them in the past, what would YOU think of the man?

I love the music of Vinnie Vincent. I want more. I would pay for more if sold through a retail outlet.
I don't like nor trust the man.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:35 am

Riverlioness, Let's get down to it. The identities of all of the main players in this web of lunacy have been disclosed. Let's just end the charade and come clean. Who are you ??? Let's just get real and end the cutesy screen names.
Were you sent here???

You can call me "SCHOBEL".

Riverlioness · Post by **Riverlioness** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:15 am

doublev2 wrote:Riverlioness I don't understand your 'matter of fact' style. Please explain why you say vinnie doesn't lie?
Do you know him or something?

I said, there is no motivation to lie.

I did not say that he doesn't lie, I said there is no motivation.He's a rockstar, not a politician. How many times has Ozzy been arrested? Unless there is an outstanding citizen standard for KISS members that I don't know about, there is no incentive for him to lie. I don't know whether he does or doesn't lie, in general.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:10 am

Gotcha . Thanks for clearing that up.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:47 pm

Let's keep things polite with an acknowledgement of you reading my previous post. Thank you.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:02 am

Riverlioness,
I know it feels like some of us are attacking you and are unwilling to hear your side.
If it makes things better, I think we feel the same way from our side. Many of us have been personally swindled by Vinnie in business dealings and some of us feel we were mistreated by the way we were kicked out of the doublev forum.

To put this in context of your last post, we don't expect our heroes to be saints. We love Ace even though he has broken a metric-shit-ton of laws. Ozzy apologized for hitting Sharon and publicly admitted it was wrong.
On top of Vinnie wronging so many of us, the law-breaking he was involved with was domestic battery and then he LIED about it when EVERYONE knew the truth as it was a matter of public record. It's all just too much.

Cernex · Post by **Cernex** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:40 am

Riverlioness wrote: "innocent until proven guilty.".

And I say "right until proven wrong." So far so good, besides weird vague remarks, attacks on our site, and the usual "my life is private" line, we have not been proven wrong.

Just my two cents.

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