Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

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Genebaby
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Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Genebaby »

Just found this on a network drive at work today (I've been there a long time, yes!).

Clearly my understanding of the Vinnie situation still stands and I would love to see him working with Kiss and bringing them back to their full potential, but that is almost a certainty to never happen.

I am not even sure who I emailed this too, nor if I got a response, but I feel I didn't.

With working on a couple of Fanzines and such I was in touch with the Kiss machine back then, and Ace's people too, but I can't recall exactly why I wrote this.
What are you lame brains up to?? Bands need constant exposure to the public, otherwise they get forgotten very easily, no wonder people think kiss are dead, nothing is heard for ages and ages then all of a sudden a few things come out, you need better public relations people to keep you in the spotlight.

Also, do whatever it takes to have Vinnie Vincent back in the band, the man is a musical treasure, with him in the band Gene wouldn't have had to apologise for some of the stuff KISS did cause Vinnie would have written only top notch songs, no filler all killer. Do whatever and make him a member of the group again.

Let go your control of the band Gene and Paul, you obviously aren't doing a very good job so bring Vinnie back pronto, let him write you another brilliant album with the best ever solos and go from strength to strength with him. For years I ignored Vinnies word after Kiss simply because of what was said about him, I wouldn't give him a chance. Once I listened I saw the light and I'm never going back. I can listen to Vinnies albums anytime all the time, I never get tired of it, the same can't be said for Asylum which was release around the same time. Vinnie writes very catchy and memorable songs you don't get tired of.

Thank you for your time, pls feel free to respond.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by shramiac »

I'll respond!!!! :P :P :P

Very nice indeed!
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Brooklyn_Born »

Vic telling it how it is :D
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by 1031 »

nice post.. I think the G&P relationship with Vinnie was like that girl friend who was super hot, super smart, made a great living, soft spoken, treated you like a king but left you little postit notes around the house in odd places saying she would like to wear your skin like a suit. At some point you go wow this person is batshit crazy and has to go.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by eddiepagechicago »

WOW!!!

IT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING I WOULD WRITE!!!

I DON'T CARE IF VINNIE EVER PUTS OUT ANOTHER PIECE OF MUSIC AGAIN...
WHAT HE HAS WRITTEN FOR KISS AND FOR VVI IS PRICELESS...

DON'T FORGET...ON THE 8TH DAY, GOD CREATED VINNIE VINCENT...

KISS CAN SUCK IT...
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by poserboy71 »

I do care. His talent is wasted because of pettiness. Where the pettiness originates from is arguable.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by shramiac »

Yep!!!
Promises made, crying in vain, all empty. Never accepting the blame and not letting go of the shame. A river of tears, as months turn to years, all wasted. On someone not willing to change.Now only a shadow remains! :(
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by PinkWiz »

poserboy71 wrote:I do care. His talent is wasted because of pettiness. Where the pettiness originates from is arguable.

arguably from being raised as a spoiled brat...
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by eddiepagechicago »

Poserboy...

I have to respectfully disagree with you...
Nothing was or is petty about Vinnie's decisions because, for the hundredth time of my repeating this,
Vinnie was robbed by Gene & Paul (notably the LIU album contracts).
If someone were to do to me what Gene & Paul / The Kiss Organization did, I would fucking flip out too!!!

True Kiss fans want the Live material that is out there with Vinnie in it...However, Gene & Paul feel the need to try and erase the past, like Vinnie was never there...Well, Fuck Them!!!

Paul's comments about how COTN is a better sounding / better written album, is a dig into Vinnie...(Take Vinnie's writing and guitar playing away from that album, and it's a fuckin' circus, with lame riffs and very weak rhythm structures...along with the fact that the recording of the songs does not have a similar tonal response, which makes me think they ((everyone other than Gene n Paul)) did alot of bullshit trying to appease Gene & Paul with all their fanfare)

Paul has a serious complex when it comes to Vinnie.
And Gene is Paul's emotional bodyguard...
The two of them should have married...

I know you're pissed at Vinnie...but, try to put yourself in his shoes...In fact, all of you need to.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Slayer »

I would sure love to hear all those live Kiss Recordings cleaned up and I would also like to hear the the unreleased songs with Vinnie including the version of BOTS with Paul singing. Bet there is some killer stuff that we will never hear.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Genebaby »

Some decent footage of Kiss with Vinnie would be FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eddie, I think the case with Vinnie and the Kiss royalties/monies is very blurred due to him declaring bankruptcy, that was a game changer in who owes who what.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by KissMyAss »

Awesome letter and so true. Gene Simmons cares more about the almighty dollar than the music. Awesome guitar players are irreplaceable. All Gene would need to do, is draw up a contract granting Vinnie the intellectual rights to his songs...Gene has $300 million...isn't it enough? KISS has sold out.

Gene Simmons treasure should be music, not his assets. The product is the priority. Quality. KISS lost one fan. I don't buy KISS albums with mediocre guitar playing. If they actually bring back Vinnie or Ace, and not just paste either's picture on the cover, I'll buy it. It has to be a full Vinnie or Ace album, and I'll listen very closely...Gene is deceitful...you have got to watch that guy.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by KissMyAss »

Eddie, that is true. I would like to add, Gene's greed is at the heart of this. Gene has the ethics of Ebeneezer Scrooge. Vinnie quit because Gene put him up in $10 motels while he was putting on a show every night. Gene Simmons was pocketing Vinnie's share of the ticket sales. Not cool. It may pay off to screw people over for money, but it isn't right.

Gene's greed has raped fans too. There are two albums with Ace Frehley's face on the album, and maybe 1 song at most. Gene has violated my trust. He tried to sell me Psycho Circus as an Ace album. Vinnie redeemed COTN, not KISS' tricks. Vinnie sold the album, not the picture of Ace. Fuck Gene for trying to deceive fans. We should all read the musical credits before buying KISS albums. If there is another lead guitar player listed, chances are it's another dirty trick...anything for a buck.

Gene revealed his net worth on Fox Business news while bragging about his economic suave. Everyone knows he can afford to hire Vinnie and give him his intellectual property rights back as part of the pay. That's all Vin is asking. For his songs. Gene Simmons might have to give up a vacation house in Maui. Small potatoes for a millionaire. A small sacrifice for the fans.

The law is on Gene's side, but he isn't in the right....he's still a greedy fuck that took advantage of Vinnie's desperation. Vinnie Vincent isn't business savvy. Gene shouldn't have taken advantage of that. That is so wrong. Poor Vinnie. :( He composed, played, and toured and got screwed out of his share.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Brooklyn_Born »

Gene Simmons net worth is $300m
Paul Stanleys net worth is $125m
Ace Frehleys net worth is $35m
Peter Criss' net worth is $2m

The above figures say it all...Gene is the richest because greed is his driving force. He now represents everything that I dislike about Corporate America. He has become one of those suit wearing douches that would step over their own friends to eRn an extra buck... Vinnie never had a chance..
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Genebaby »

All that money and Gene's hair still looks like crap!!!!!
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by eddiepagechicago »

Thanks KissMyAss...
Finally, someone on my side of things...Loved reading what you had to say.

Your screen name says it all...Kiss can Kiss My Ass!!!

Genebaby, If Gene and Paul never fucked Vinnie over, he would have never had to file bankruptcy...
Simmons and Stanley played the court system and I despise them for it.

I bet most people don't know this but, that court case is studied in universities around this country.

Anyone who gives Gene one red cent anymore is a fool...

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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by erg2 »

I don't think there is anything wrong with making money or making LOTS of money for doing what you love and putting out product you believe in as the best.
The problem with Gene & Paul, is that they stopped putting out product they believed and started putting out product that they felt would make money. Originally KISS did their own thing and the people came to them. Then they started trying to figure out what was successful for everyone else and mimic it...and the people left.

I am sure that Gene & Paul screwed over Vinnie and all the other members of the band...including Ace & Peter. The problem is that some of them got over it and went on with their life and others fell into the corner and cried.

OK Vinnie, KISS screwed you over. You've cried about it. Now dust yourself off and start over:
- write new songs
- record new songs
- release new album
- write a book with your side of the story
- go on a club tour OR get on one of those big summer nostalgia tours

Vinnie could be doing a LOT, but he is choosing to sulk.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by poserboy71 »

eddiepagechicago wrote:Poserboy...

I have to respectfully disagree with you...
Nothing was or is petty about Vinnie's decisions because, for the hundredth time of my repeating this,
Vinnie was robbed by Gene & Paul (notably the LIU album contracts)...
...I know you're pissed at Vinnie...but, try to put yourself in his shoes...In fact, all of you need to.
Eddie, :D :D :D Please notice that I didn't say VINNIE'S PETTINESS. I questioned the origin of the pettiness as well.
I believe that Gene and Paul's pettiness has rubbed off on Vinnie . Vinnie doesn't trust many people and thinks anyone with a differing opinion is against him.

Also, We Have tried and are still trying to understand Vinnie . We have been called every name in the book by OUR WARRIOR because of this.
You have been here long enough to see that all of us feel Vinnie got the shaft from Kiss. The thing is , for some reason, we at the VVFF , are treated like we are Gene and Paul.
We have never said that Kiss was right. Quite the contrary actually.

There are no sides to this from our end. We are not Vinnie's enemy even though he perceives us as such.
Out of respect , please don't say I hate Vinnie .because I don't.
We are , however, not tolerant of falsities and will call anyone out on them .

Eddie , when someone takes a jab at you, do you turn the other cheek or do you answer back ???
We have answered back, right or wrong, yet have still openly held out the olive branch to TRY and make things better.
A few of us have been called out by name and accused of things that we didn't do.We fought back... Retaliated... It sucks that it's towards someone who we admire. Oh well. I'll keep wishing that Vinnie will come here and REALLY TRY to make things work .
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Shred4hire »

i have to chime in here since im ONE man away from vincents old att. (who is now deceased) i will tell you first hand that vinnie may have been screwed ( yea im not arguing that kiss isnt a piece of work) vinnie also had the oppertunity to walk away with what he had (which was alot) and made a poor business judgement AGAINST his attorney's advice, and would have put him way ahead in 1984-85' and would have still owned those songs in full. also would have kept a possible working relation ship in the future and would have lead to having the upper hand on the band. BUT Egos and attitudes got in the way my friends dont fool your selves, vinnie made a choice and it was the wrong one. i feel for the guy because gene and paul are like sharks .. but you also reap what you sew. it wasnt all kiss both parties are guilty. nuff said.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Shred4hire »

im not gonna say any thing but what i know , im here because i have some friends on the board and there are some great people .. im really "not" that interested in talking bout vinnie but it needs to be clear he made a choice and it costed him.
Last edited by Shred4hire on Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by poserboy71 »

chris bickley wrote:... but you also reap what you sew. it wasnt all kiss both parties are guilty. nuff said.
Poserboy71 wrote: I believe that Gene and Paul's pettiness(towards Vinnie) has rubbed off on Vinnie .

Well said Chris. I agree.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Shred4hire »

perhaps .. but remember HE lost sight of the big picture and who was being more petty??? vinnie or kiss? one coming from no were with talent but no major clout . until then & the other having tons of cash and money at the time. its very arguable but no less i tend to agree with you.


all i can say is the numbers dont lie LIU went platium and creatures gold, revenge gold as well . VVI didnt it would have been better if he stuck it out .. Ace proves this ten fold.. and vinnie would be sittin on a better throne than the bar stool hes on now and probablly less bitter.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by doublev2 »

also don't forget kiss work there asses off. always touring and doing shit. they also work for there money as well as get fans to buy the same thing over and over.
Lick it up went platinum partly because of the unmasking I believe. If it was a make up record would it have done better than Creatures???
Vinnie burned every bridge in the music scene. If it was only kiss complaining about him its one thing, but 9 out of every 10 guy who has worked with him for more than a few weeks says the same thing. even his current friends will tell you.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Shred4hire »

doublev2 wrote:also don't forget kiss work there asses off. always touring and doing shit. they also work for there money as well as get fans to buy the same thing over and over.
Lick it up went platinum partly because of the unmasking I believe. If it was a make up record would it have done better than Creatures???
Vinnie burned every bridge in the music scene. If it was only kiss complaining about him its one thing, but 9 out of every 10 guy who has worked with him for more than a few weeks says the same thing. even his current friends will tell you.
IMO it just steam rolled , once the whole kiss thing happened to vinnie, (negatively ) he was gonna step on every one to get what he wanted. remember he hes " Vinnie Vincent savior of kiss" ( not that he didnt do a little of that before kiss) lets just say instead of helping the situation it only got worse and it was again ego. he burned bridges be cause he was sure he had clout . no matter what. lets be real it showed that he didnt . and people didnt care and they just remember what the hell he was known for at the time..

as far as kiss it dosnt matter if they unmasked or not every album i mentioned went at least gold .. and stands the test of time still.... and his name would have been timeless and done the same if he used the right head to think with. just my 2 cents
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by PinkWiz »

Vinnie was great for KISS and IMO Lick It Up was a Vinnie Vincent solo album, but make no mistake, if Lick It Up would've been released with KISS wearing makeup, it would've suffered the same fate as Creatures. For Vinnie or anyone else to think that he put KISS back on the map single-handedly is silly, KISS was back in the limelight because in 1983 they removed the makeup and THAT got MTV's attention. KISS was a joke at this point and removing the makeup was something they HAD to do. Not to downsize Vinnie's talent (Lick It Up is my fave non-makeup album) but it's simply the truth. Hell, if The Elder was released when they unmasked, it probably would've been a success.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Shred4hire »

pink wiz really though aside from make up . timing for the type of songs on LIU also is a huge part of it, thats how the business works .. the quality of material is extremely important .. in cusanos defense. i listen to the elder and i didnt hear one GOOD single at all. at least with creatures or LIU there were some " songs". you think bruce carried them after wards? no it was the material. the band didnt have make up or a gimmick. but i agree the drastic change in appearance did help revive the band.

but i always tend to believe that marketing and the material is what made that band stick during that era.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by eddiepagechicago »

POSERBOY...

Please re-read my comments...I never said you 'hated' Vinnie, I said 'I know you're pissed at Vinnie'...

Big difference...

To everyone else...

Take this challenge and list a Kiss song next to the one's I listed below which is comparable to or blows it away...
You will be hard pressed to do so...

I LOVE IT LOUD -
I STILL LOVE YOU -
KILLER -
EXCITER -
NOT FOR THE INNOCENT -
LICK IT UP -
YOUNG AND WASTED -
GIMME MORE -
ALL HELL'S BREAKIN' LOOSE -
A MILLION TO ONE -
AND ON THE 8TH. DAY -
FITS LIKE A GLOVE -(EVEN THOUGH IT SAYS IT'S WRITTEN BY SIMMONS, I WONDER - VINNIE'S INFLUENCE for sure)
DANCE ALL OVER YOUR FACE - (AGAIN, EVEN THOUGH IT SAYS IT'S WRITTEN BY SIMMONS, I WONDER)

If any of you list songs from Dynasty or Unmasked...you need your head examined.

If you choose any songs from ANIMALIZE - keep in mind that it's watered down 'Influence of Vinnie's writing' and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Gene ripped off Vinnie's ideas for new songs to be worked on for Animalize before kicking him out after LIU.
And, they needed three outside writers to help out on Animalize...what a bunch of pussies.

I WILL NEVER GIVE UP THE GOOD FIGHT FOR VINNIE'S HISTORY.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Shred4hire »

fight as much as you need .... i agree with the influence but i will not agree with him being innocent or totally just getting blind sided. because i know for a fact he wasnt and his history is a checkered past that he also created.

as far as the tracks destoryer album is the only one i could say that had songs that could get close or of course revenge.. but hey i could be wrong on that one.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by poserboy71 »

Eddie, correct . Pissed NOT hate. We've been accused so much of being a HATE group that is all I see. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm not even pissed at Vinnie. I would like answers among other things9new music, performances,etc...) but I will never get any of those.

As far as THE GOOD FIGHT, who are you fighting here??? All of us agree about Vinnie.

It's a LOVE/HATE relationship... ... We love him, He hates us . :cry: :cry: :cry: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by doublev2 »

Dynasty is a great record. Its totally different to Creatures.
No one on here has ever said VV wasn't a great song writer or guitar player. thats why we are here. But its shocking to me the way he is with people, especially fans. How can he steal from fans, not say sorry then invite them to his board and either not let them in or delete them. almost 900 members he deleted.. were they all so bad? How many has he got now? I would say between 5 and 15. So all the people he deleted are bad haters .. its impossible. If he just stood up and said sorry folks , i love my fans but I just want to control everything they say then it would not have been a problem, but he is in denial and a liar with spyder and the gang. how can anything he say about anything stand for any truth when he lies about the boxset and lies about his moderator being a real person and not who he actually is.. Vinnie himself.
I just can not believe he is keeping the spyder thing going and fooling the fans he calls family. sick.
As for his music it was good , but its obvious he can not write a thing anymore or he would not be holding on to the tiny bit of past he takes ownership of.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by doublev2 »

whatever you say about kiss , they are some of the hardest working guys in the industry. thats one of the main reasons they are still around.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Shred4hire »

i agree D . smart and hard working guys .. a lesson never learned by cusano. and that my friend is one major difference. you reap what you sew.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by KissMyAss »

Brooklyn_Born wrote:Gene Simmons net worth is $300m
Paul Stanleys net worth is $125m
Ace Frehleys net worth is $35m
Peter Criss' net worth is $2m

The above figures say it all...Gene is the richest because greed is his driving force. He now represents everything that I dislike about Corporate America. He has become one of those suit wearing douches that would step over their own friends to eRn an extra buck... Vinnie never had a chance..
I am in agreement with you on douche bags. Good ethics is trustworthy business. Bad ethics are worthless, and all the gold in the treasury won't change that. As far as I'm concerned, dogs make better companions than sharks. Those corporate sharks, like those Enron freaks, have one friend; the one in the mirror. Everyone else is potential food.

Vinnie Vincent deserved a chance. He saved KISS from The Elder. And Gene repaid him by stepping over his friend, and wiping his feet on him. Furthermore, Vinnie has no unkind words for the prick. To quote Ace, "Fuck Gene Simmons". Ace has $20 million, more wealth than the majority of Americans will ever accumulate. He didn't cheat any of his band mates to get it. What is Gene's excuse?
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by eddiepagechicago »

RIGHT ON!!!

They wrote Dance All Over Your Face...then proceeded to do so to Vinnie...

You make very good point...Ace and Peter have dogged Gene and Paul several times...

AND I'M GONNA KEEP ON DOGGIN' THEM TOO!!!
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by shramiac »

You'll have to change your name to EddiePitbull then!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink: :wink: :wink:
Promises made, crying in vain, all empty. Never accepting the blame and not letting go of the shame. A river of tears, as months turn to years, all wasted. On someone not willing to change.Now only a shadow remains! :(
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by KissMyAss »

eddiepagechicago wrote:Thanks KissMyAss...
Finally, someone on my side of things...Loved reading what you had to say.

Your screen name says it all...Kiss can Kiss My Ass!!!

Genebaby, If Gene and Paul never fucked Vinnie over, he would have never had to file bankruptcy...
Simmons and Stanley played the court system and I despise them for it.

I bet most people don't know this but, that court case is studied in universities around this country.

Anyone who gives Gene one red cent anymore is a fool...

NO ONE PLAYS OR WRITES LIKE VINNIE, AND NO ONE EVER WILL...ONE OF A KIND...
I love reading what you have to say, as well, Eddie. You communicate the truth very well. :D Everything you say about Paul and Gene playing the court system is backed by court documents.

Here is the information from the ninth circuit court:

"Cusano declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 1989. On the schedule for personal property, he listed "songrights in... Songs written while in the band known as `KISS,' " which he assigned a value of "unknown." Defendants Simmons and Stanley were listed as creditors possessing contingent and disputed claims in an unknown amount. Cusano's reorganization plan provided for a cash payment to the plan of $40,000, generally, and another cash payment of $1,521.60 to retain his songrights. The plan was confirmed in 1990 and Cusano was released from bankruptcy in 1993."

I"n 1992, although no longer a member of the band, Cusano co-authored three songs for the KISS album "Revenge." Cusano alleges that he never received royalties for the "Revenge" compositions because Defendants Klein and Stanley fraudulently attached a photocopy of his signature to an agreement purporting to assign his interest in the compositions to Gene Simmons Worldwide, Inc. and SimstanMusic, Ltd. Also in 1992, Cusano assigned part of his royalty rights in the "Creatures of the Night" compositions to Horipro, after which Horipro allegedly directed Polygram to pay Horipro more than its rightful share."


FOR PUBLICATION UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT

VINCENT CUSANO, individually d/b/a Vinnie Vincent Music, d/b/a Streetbeat Music f/k/a Vinnie Vincent, Plaintiff-Appellant,
v.
GENE KLEIN, an individual; STANLEY EISEN, an individual; THE KISS COMPANY, a New York No. 99-56131 Corporation; GENE SIMMONS D.C. No. WORLDWIDE, INC., a Delaware CV-97-04914-Corporation; SIMSTAN MUSIC LTD., AHM-AJ a Delaware Corporation; KISSTORY LTD.; POLYGRAM RECORDS, INC., a Delaware Corporation, Defendants-Appellees, and HORIPRO ENTERTAINMENT GROUP, a California Corporation, Defendant.


Furthermore, KISS told the fans a big fat lie about Revenge!! Vinnie wanted to pay his creditors (Paul and Gene) the $40,000 to get his song rights back ! Gene told, us, the fans that Vinnie was a narcissist that demanded a $40,000 advance. The truth is in legal documentation. Gene Simmons has lied to us all. Paul and Gene are greedy bastards that cheated Vinnie Vincent out of his song rights, then lied about him.

Vinnie Vincent only wanted his songs :(

Amen, Eddie. Gene Simmons doesn't deserve our money, until he shows some remorse for his actions and puts this right...

Until KISS grows some scruples...they can KISS my ass.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by doublev2 »

booh hoo.

what about the ripping off of fans for poor vinnie?
Bye Bye
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by doublev2 »

just to let you know Creatures was a commercial flop and so was the tour, so vinnie didn't exactly save kiss. he helped for sure but i still say taking the make up off saved kiss not vinnie. but his writing was great.. but hey, they would have found another good writer if not Vinnie.
Bye Bye
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by PinkWiz »

chris bickley wrote:pink wiz really though aside from make up . timing for the type of songs on LIU also is a huge part of it, thats how the business works .. the quality of material is extremely important .. in cusanos defense. i listen to the elder and i didnt hear one GOOD single at all. at least with creatures or LIU there were some " songs". you think bruce carried them after wards? no it was the material. the band didnt have make up or a gimmick. but i agree the drastic change in appearance did help revive the band.

but i always tend to believe that marketing and the material is what made that band stick during that era.


Any album KISS would've released with the "removing the makeup" gimmick in the early 80's would've sold... maybe at different degrees but at that point KISS without makeup was somewhat of a big deal. Yes, the LIU album rocked on its own and only tops Creatures IMO by a small margin, but if KISS would've removed the makeup a year earlier, Creatures would've been a success (afterall, to the fairweather fan, Lick It Up is probably no better of a tune than I Love It Loud). The removal of the makeup put them back on the map and helped them out for years afterwards. Vinnie WAS a one man songwriting machine, but he needed KISS more than they needed him. Vinnie's problem was thinking that KISS should treat him as a 100 % equal member and that's just not reality coming into a band that's been around for 10 years( when he joined) that Gene and Paul (with the help of Bill Aucoin and countless others) built up. Vinnie was being difficult, so that's why the $2000 a week salary was cut down to $1000 a week and they put him in cheap hotels ($2000 a week to slap on makeup and go rock out onstage for 2 hours a night no questions asked?! COUNT ME THE FUCK IN! Especially if it meant a claim to instant fame and furthering my future cause as a songwriter/solo artist!)

Vinnie was basically a songwriter who was lucky enough to be put into the spotlight because of Paul and Gene adding him as a member of KISS (Adam Mitchel, Juan Beauvior and others didn't get that luxury). He was lucky to be able to burn all his bridges with KISS and still quit/get fired and have a solo career (that again he flushed away himself). Yes, the business is unfair but at certain points you gotta play the game and not ruffle too many feathers along the way and attempt to parlay that into something to benefit yourself in the future.

Unfortunately Vinnie is his own worst enemy and I've found that out first-hand just being on this board and the DoubleV forum last year. Having passion is one thing... being a self absorbed "everyone is out to get me" paranoid ass is another. What he did to DoubleV, Poserboy and others on this site as fans and supporters is not excusable... I don't care what kinda love I have for Vinnie as a performer/songwriter. The writing is on the wall when you discover the guy does nothing but sit in his basement trying to shut down a messageboard IN HIS NAME, sues everyone he can, AND doesn't deliver on any promise made. I will love what he has done musically in the past... I will NEVER fall for the bullshit he is doing in the present.

Don't get me wrong, I hate alot of things Gene and Paul do today but Vinnie and only Vinnie is responsible for his downfall. Vinnie had so many chances in life that we here could only DREAM about and he fucked them all away himself.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Shred4hire »

PinkWiz wrote:
chris bickley wrote:pink wiz really though aside from make up . timing for the type of songs on LIU also is a huge part of it, thats how the business works .. the quality of material is extremely important .. in cusanos defense. i listen to the elder and i didnt hear one GOOD single at all. at least with creatures or LIU there were some " songs". you think bruce carried them after wards? no it was the material. the band didnt have make up or a gimmick. but i agree the drastic change in appearance did help revive the band.

but i always tend to believe that marketing and the material is what made that band stick during that era.


Any album KISS would've released with the "removing the makeup" gimmick in the early 80's would've sold... maybe at different degrees but at that point KISS without makeup was somewhat of a big deal. Yes, the LIU album rocked on its own and only tops Creatures IMO by a small margin, but if KISS would've removed the makeup a year earlier, Creatures would've been a success (afterall, to the fairweather fan, Lick It Up is probably no better of a tune than I Love It Loud). The removal of the makeup put them back on the map and helped them out for years afterwards. Vinnie WAS a one man songwriting machine, but he needed KISS more than they needed him. Vinnie's problem was thinking that KISS should treat him as a 100 % equal member and that's just not reality coming into a band that's been around for 10 years( when he joined) that Gene and Paul (with the help of Bill Aucoin and countless others) built up. Vinnie was being difficult, so that's why the $2000 a week salary was cut down to $1000 a week and they put him in cheap hotels ($2000 a week to slap on makeup and go rock out onstage for 2 hours a night no questions asked?! COUNT ME THE FUCK IN! Especially if it meant a claim to instant fame and furthering my future cause as a songwriter/solo artist!)

Vinnie was basically a songwriter who was lucky enough to be put into the spotlight because of Paul and Gene adding him as a member of KISS (Adam Mitchel, Juan Beauvior and others didn't get that luxury). He was lucky to be able to burn all his bridges with KISS and still quit/get fired and have a solo career (that again he flushed away himself). Yes, the business is unfair but at certain points you gotta play the game and not ruffle too many feathers along the way and attempt to parlay that into something to benefit yourself in the future.

Unfortunately Vinnie is his own worst enemy and I've found that out first-hand just being on this board and the DoubleV forum last year. Having passion is one thing... being a self absorbed "everyone is out to get me" paranoid ass is another. What he did to DoubleV, Poserboy and others on this site as fans and supporters is not excusable... I don't care what kinda love I have for Vinnie as a performer/songwriter. The writing is on the wall when you discover the guy does nothing but sit in his basement trying to shut down a messageboard IN HIS NAME, sues everyone he can, AND doesn't deliver on any promise made. I will love what he has done musically in the past... I will NEVER fall for the bullshit he is doing in the present.

Don't get me wrong, I hate alot of things Gene and Paul do today but Vinnie and only Vinnie is responsible for his downfall. Vinnie had so many chances in life that we here could only DREAM about and he fucked them all away himself.


i agree i also think though losing the make up before 83' mite not have helped ... and realy not every album in teh 80's for them would have sold . its possible to tank man , Asylum went gold ( barely) but it was possible to to have a bad record . but thats my 2 cents as far as anything else

understand vinnie never left -he was fired. and he did everything in his power to get back in 2 times . even giving up ower ship to certain songs. i personaly dont give a fuck bout VV ( i say that in the kindest way)and i know way too much bout him and i am closer to to him that i wanted to be living where i live with all the people i know who knew him all to well . so to me i have no reason to do anything but state the facts as i know them .


very cool though im glad you get it and know the deal . and i apologise for my rant ill shut up now
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by KissMyAss »

I have presented the facts and now I shall keep my peace....but not before saying

* I do not regret feeling empathy for anyone

* I like members of this forum, but I'm not going to take sides in this conflict between Vinnie and the Vinnie Vincent fan forum. Count me out of this fight.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by shramiac »

It's all in Vinnie's hands. As it always has been. We'll always be here alternating between praising and complaining about the Vinman.
Promises made, crying in vain, all empty. Never accepting the blame and not letting go of the shame. A river of tears, as months turn to years, all wasted. On someone not willing to change.Now only a shadow remains! :(
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by PinkWiz »

Didn't mean to get too long-winded... at the end of the day I'm a huge VV fan but sometimes have way too much passion for someone who hasn't released new music in 20 years.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by WizKid »

KMA, I'm not trying to stir things with you but I wonder why you quoted that text about the signature being faked from the legal papers but conveniently left out the fact that the judge asked for a sample of Vinnie's handwriting to confirm said forgery and Vinnie NEVER bothered to provide the sample??

Seems kind of strange to go after Gene & Paul so viciously yet not bother to hammer the point home by proving that his signature was faked. Any idea why??
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Slayer »

Quick and Dirty Summary

* Gene and Paul may have fucked Vinnie for songwriting royalties
* Vinnie fucked himself up with Chrysalis Records and his solo career
* Vinnie fucked everyone who sent him $125 for the Vinnie Vincent Archives
* Vinnie fucked 99% of his fan base by banning them from their own tribute forum founded by Dino (Forumco)
* Nearly everyone who has professionally worked with Vinnie finds him to be an incredibly gifted songwriter and musician but a destructive personality that is impossible to work with long term
* Vinnie has solicited a few remaining fans to attack this forum which is a tribute site to him
* Vinnie's newest guitar line wasn't made available at fair market value and thus didn't even sell a single guitar
* Vincent Cusano has stolen 5 prototype VV Guitars from a very trusting, well intended and honorable luthier Tom Palecki
* Vinnie threatens and has delivered on promises of frivolous lawsuits and legal action (Example Tommy)
* Vinnie alledgely beat the fuck out of his wife, threw her to the floor and drug her by her hair through broken glass on his way to physically throwing her out of their house intoxicated and physically hurt. A house that she alone works to pay for I might add.
* A number of dead dogs where found in sealed containers on the property while not likely a sign of abuse this is a sign of mental illness.

I could go on and on about other things that are documented but this is enough. He is an exceptionally gifted songwriter and musician and that is what he needs to get back to bury these ugly facts underneath some new deads of value.

I hope that he does something positive with the life that he has left for himself 1st, his family 2nd and his fanbase thirdly. His legacy sadly has become a tale of an epic squandered talent!
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Shred4hire »

what a great movie this would make epic drama..
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by Shred4hire »

KissMyAss wrote:I have presented the facts and now I shall keep my peace....but not before saying

* I do not regret feeling empathy for anyone

* I like members of this forum, but I'm not going to take sides in this conflict between Vinnie and the Vinnie Vincent fan forum. Count me out of this fight.

no side taking here bro just the facts... other wise " whatever"
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by eddiepagechicago »

doublev2...

I have to disagree with you...

Kiss has never found another talent like Vinnie again...and never will.

To say they would have found someone else if they never found Vinnie is disingenuous because you can't change the past...Furthermore, if they could have found someone else to settle on being in the band, they would have, wouldn't they?...but they didn't now, did they??? Nope. Gene, chose Vinnie. Gene brought Vinnie into this and he should have respectfully let him earn the money and rights to the material he labored. Not pamper Paul's sorry fuckin', cantaloped ear, sensitive ass.

This is the basis of my argument for Vinnie...I have stated this before, but I imagine that many of you are not musicians that perform in front of crowds regularly...I am though...
It takes a special breed of person to write the way Vinnie writes, AND, put makeup on, dance around in all that gear / boots, AND, flawlessly play for huge crowds without shitting yourself (need I say the Rio shows anyone??) I am certain that, none of you could do so...most can't.

I wouldn't be arguing my case here, if Vinnie was given what was rightfully his. I would actually be in agreement with most of you that like to jab at Vinnie. I would be stating, hey, why was or is, Vinnie acting the way he is???...

But you see, none of you have gone through, what Vinnie has gone through...
If you were robbed...you would be upset...
If I came into this forum, and then stated I want full control of the forum, and then proceeded to do so with my (hypothetically speaking) power of authority...the person or persons maintaining this forum, would be pissed/angry/frustrated/sad/confused etc...

Naturally, all of us, were Kiss fans first, before Vinnie fans...psychologically speaking, what better way to take your frustrations out on two people named Gene and Paul, then to take it out on the fans of theirs.
Am I condoning this behavior?...no. Do I blame Vinnie for acting out...absolutely not.

So, to make a long story longer, Did Vinnie save Kiss?...Yes he did. Did Gene and Paul save Vinnie??? No they did not.

Trust me when I tell you this, If it weren't for Vinnie, we would have been subjected to songwriting like I Was Made For Loving You, Shandi, Naked City, World Without Heros, for the COTN and LIU eras.

Excuse me now, while I go vomit in my toilet for typing I Was Made For Loving You, Shandi, Naked City, World Without Heros...twice in this post.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by PinkWiz »

eddiepagechicago wrote: Naturally, all of us, were Kiss fans first, before Vinnie fans...psychologically speaking, what better way to take your frustrations out on two people named Gene and Paul, then to take it out on the fans of theirs.
Am I condoning this behavior?...no. Do I blame Vinnie for acting out...absolutely not.

So, to make a long story longer, Did Vinnie save Kiss?...Yes he did. Did Gene and Paul save Vinnie??? No they did not.

I gotta hand it to ya dude, you defend Vinnie til the end... I would almost think you ARE Vinnie. ;) But although I do agree that Vinnie HELPED KISS... he did not save them. As for KISS not saving Vinnie? Vinnie was sleeping on other peoples floors with nothing but a phone and guitar (his own words) before KISS added him to the band. Vinnie has even stated himself that he wouldn't have the success he had without them. Also, two wrongs don't make a right and there is NO FUCKIN REASON for Vinnie to treat his last remaining fans like shit to get, as you say, back at Gene and Paul.
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Re: Something about Vinnie I wrote in 1996!

Post by poserboy71 »

doublev2 wrote:...but hey, they would have found another good writer if not Vinnie.
They never did find that other good writer because Gene and Paul only wanted THEIR songs on the albums. More cash for them.
Kiss suffered because of this.
Then Vinnie turned around and tried to do the same to other people and failed because Dana is a bigger douche-bag than him and got a huge one over on him.
Vinnie and his remaining fans (US) suffered for this.

All parties are at fault. No one is innocent .

The fans have seen this go down since it started and are frustrated.
We hate that Vinnie got screwed and that he has screwed others in turn.
The shit needs to stop, man up, start playing and producing music plus other product... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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