Vinnie has to pay Gene ?

Streetbeat · Post by **Streetbeat** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:04 am

http://www.kissopolis.com/2012/06/ex-ki ... rfeit.html

http://www.law360.com/articles/350457/e ... -9th-circ-

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:17 am

I doubt vv will get a dime from royalties for a long time. Thanks Sammy. Big news.

Post by **Genebaby** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:29 am

Thanks Sammy. I KNEW this was the outcome of all the legal crap, yet Vinnie said he owes Kiss nothing. Maybe, but he owes Gene plenty it seems.

Big news indeed. It's been almost two years now since the first shutdown and bootings.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:35 am

I wouldn't say he is paying Gene. He is paying the attorney.

I would hope that Vinnie has a list of those attorneys names and...

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Streetbeat · Post by **Streetbeat** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:42 am

he must be very very upset now

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:51 am

Yes, I don't want to see him down but he has to know that he can never win and move on. I think he can not file bankruptcy at the moment so no idea how he can pay unless he sells a few of his guitars he says he doesnt own anymore.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:04 am

Dino, It clearly says they are taking his royalties until the debt is paid.

I have to say that this shit has gone on for too long. How many times can you kick a man when he's down?
I just read a Mark St. John interview that backs up everything that Vinnie has said about Kiss.
I'm not kissing Vinnie's ass here. I really believe that G& P fucked him over . Vinnie should get what is his from Kiss.
I will say that just because Kiss fucked him, it doesn't give him the right to transfer that frustration to us.
I hope Vinnie has his head up and is strong. Calm down on the drinking and put that tension into new music.
The time is NOW !!!!

Living well is the best revenge.
Write some albums that can be shoved up their (G&P) asses sideways.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:49 am

poserboy71 wrote: The time is NOW !!!!

Living well is the best revenge.
Write some albums that can be shoved up their (G&P) asses sideways.

What I've always said and all I've ever wanted.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:10 am

Rick , are you saying vv sued kiss years ago.. lost and then he was stuck in a black hole of debt? Then he could not get out of it?
I don't see how kiss screwed then.. its more like thr courts without really knowing the full details, but I know vv had some very far fetched ideas like kiss faking his signiture yet vv would not prove it.
I don't think Kiss screwed him but would like to.see the msj interview.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:13 am

Kiss screwed vv, vv screwed his fans and business partners and ex band members. . Sorry.rick.you.reap what you.sow.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:23 am

Why is he suing only gene and not Paul or kiss? Royalties it can not be because its the label. Gene must be getting his royalties to pay for a vv debt.
Vv must have sued gene only which would suggest he did it for something gene said (slander).

He can not sue kiss for not getting royalties, that's the label.
No idea what he is suing for to be honest.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:34 am

doublev2 wrote:Kiss screwed vv, vv screwed his fans and business partners and ex band members. . Sorry.rick.you.reap what you.sow.

That's basically what I said.

Post by **Genebaby** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:56 am

poserboy71 wrote:Write some albums that can be shoved up their (G&P) asses sideways.

Yes, this!!!! Kick their asses with better albums Vinnie, not sitting around the house mumbling about days gone by. Move on, and show them what you've got!!!!

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:05 pm

doublev2 wrote:Kiss screwed vv, vv screwed his fans and business partners and ex band members. . Sorry.rick.you.reap what you.sow.

Revenge never works. Life works itself out. Keep your hands as clean as possible and wait for spontaneous order to occur somehow, somewhere, some way...

It will. It's the nature of the universe.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:05 pm

It's not about vindictive revenge, it is abut outdoing them in this case.
Imagine the revues: Vinnie's album has outsold Simmons' and Stanley's recent solo efforts.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:55 pm

Saw the court files. It's was against gene , paul and label not just gene.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:57 pm

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/m ... -56871.pdf

Rick if vv was screwed how come courts don't see it that way?

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:02 pm

If vv had never gone to court against kiss in 97 surely he would be doing better than he is now and who knows he could have been picking up scraps. Surely suing for his salary 13 years after he left kiss was madness.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:06 pm

I also assure you if kiss and pillygram stopped garnishing his royalties out of compassion vv would still sue them for other stuff. Compassion means nothing to him.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:13 pm

Dino, I am merely saying that Vinnie didn't get his worth and G&P made sure he didn't. I'm sure Vinnie got a small amount of the money due him but not all.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:33 pm

Yeah. That's possibly correct , who knows for sure I suppose.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:55 pm

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think PB71 is trying to say is that KISS offered up shitty agreement to their "hired hands" after the originals broke up. Vinnie should've never agreed to join KISS for such a shitty agreement...but what struggling musician wouldn't? On the other hand, G&P could've easily afforded to pay their "hired hands" more but had no legal obligation to do so.

Vinnie DESERVES more than he got, but Gene & Paul have no legal obligation to do so.

Dear Vinnie,
I wish you had gotten more for your contribution to KISS. It is not going to happen. Time to focus your energy and talent towards other pursuits. Blow us away with some wonderfully written, new music!

TheGoodDr · Post by **TheGoodDr** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:18 pm

I'm sure Vinnie got a small amount of the money due him but not all.

I really don't understand statements like this. IMO all these do is give strength to VV's delusion that somehow he is owed more for what 'little' he did whilst in KISS. And the bottom line is, in the scheme of all things KISS, VV did very little other than contribute to the song writing for three albums out of what, twenty?

In his pea-size of a brain, he thought NOT signing a contract was the smart thing to do. I have no doubts that this douche thought he had could pull the wool over the eyes of G&P and propel himself to super stardom.

VV can't and won't accept that the BEST songs he ever wrote are now owned by KISS (actually G&P) and have been on constant rotation within the band's live set-list for over 30 years. And to kick even more sand in his face, any thought of who actually contributed to these great songs wouldn't even exist in the minds of 99% of concert goers who sing along to these very songs each time they're played live.

Since 1988 VV has become a one-trick-pony.....and not a very good one at that. The man has no basic understanding of how to pursue litigation successfully. A belief in a "right of entitlement" doesn't hold any legal weight in a court of law. And VV's sense of entitlement is not only evident in his frivolous attempts to screw G&P, but also in his constant attempts to screw his fans with the outrageous pricing for anything he may have broken wind upon.

And that my friends is truly the best anology I can bestow upon the once great guitar wizard Vinnie Vincent.....like the scent of a fart in the wind, that whilst mighty and loud, disappeared far too quickly for anyone other than the closest to his arse to actually smell.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:47 pm

In the grand scheme of things, Vinnie Cusano is no different than an Adam Mitchell, Gerard Mcmahon, Desmond Child or anyone else who wrote songs with KISS. He didn't sign the contract, which in some way came back to bite him in the ass years later.

By the miracle of fate and luck he got a second chance with the Invasion and he fucked that down the shitter. When the fame dies down, you lose your contract, you fire your whole band and then the money dries up, you can't sue KISS 13 years after the fact and expect to be taken seriously.

It's funny how when the Inavsion was starting and Vinnie was on top of the world there was no inkling of him wanting to sue KISS.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:13 pm

Great posts. Thanks.
Yeah I don't see des child, Adam Mitchell. Diane warren, vini ponncia suing kiss over and over. It's an inflated ego that is suing kiss not vinnie. Kiss gave a guitar player in his 30s who hadnt done too much before his big break. He got paid ok for his experience (Gary shea said he got psid crazy good money for that time in rock music) and he got an 8 album deal on the back of it.
He is suing to get himself out if his own mistakes which was suing.
Why is Bruce kulick or Eric carrs estate not suing kiss? I am sure Eric and bruce were on the same or worse deals than vinnie.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:45 am

erg2 wrote:Maybe I'm wrong, but I think PB71 is trying to say is that KISS offered up shitty agreement to their "hired hands" after the originals broke up. Vinnie should've never agreed to join KISS for such a shitty agreement...but what struggling musician wouldn't? On the other hand, G&P could've easily afforded to pay their "hired hands" more but had no legal obligation to do so.

Vinnie DESERVES more than he got, but Gene & Paul have no legal obligation to do so.

Dear Vinnie,
I wish you had gotten more for your contribution to KISS. It is not going to happen. Time to focus your energy and talent towards other pursuits. Blow us away with some wonderfully written, new music!

Erg2, You nailed it.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:53 am

Yeah, but everyone who worked for any company could say that. Try working at wendys.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:12 am

Not the point but you are correct.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:15 am

Understand that Vincent Cusano is a 60 year old man that lost the gig in Kiss, lost the Invasion Gig, wrecked his solo career, stole compositions from his peers, stole his fans money for his Archives, charges unattainable prices for anything that has been brushed by his DNA and beat his wife, threw her to the floor and drug her by the hair through broken glass on the way to kicking her out of the house that she pays for. Oh did I forget that he has a hobby of keeping a mausoleum of dead dogs in plastic containers at his house? I ask you all have any of you ever heard of such a twisted thing in all your lives?

Vincent Cusano's shit bag life is what he has created by his actions 100% by himself. So is his divorce that is coming. The only thing that is going to pull Cusano out of the darkest depths of Hell is Vincent Cusano through a reckoning and well intended deeds and accomplishments from getting off his wrinkly little bald ass and doing something.

I taste vomit every time I read some one make excuses for Cusano's Actions and poor Vinnie this and that. He was an amazing composer and could have been one of the greatest guitarists that ever lived but he has wasted his life and sadly squandered his talent because he is basically a whiny transvestite asshole.

I would love to see the phoenix rise from the ashes here and for Vinnie to once again rise to his potential but that is 100% up to him. There is a market for him if he can find the motivation for himself.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:14 am

True true. I think its just deep down people wish he would change and I suppose people don't like to see a man brocken but I agree 100% with slayer. It's a by product of his own doing. And vv sure doesn't spare s thought for other brocken men or women.

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:04 am

OK, first of all I don't want to be the cause of anyone here tasting vomit in the back of their throat

, BUT ( & that's a big BUT) there are documented cases of Mental Illness causing the kind of behavior Vinnie exhibits. Not making excuses for him, cause he may well be NOT mentally ill. He may just be a an everyday run of the mill douche bag asshole. I don't know. & if he is indeed ill, he needs someone to address this cause he won't be able to address it himself. Just putting out there for something that we should consider. I'd say there are people out there, maybe family of Vinnie that can address this & make it public knowledge if he is mentally ill & then all our speculation can be put to rest.

Is VV ill or an

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:53 am

I vote for all of the above:

* He is clinically bi-polar, agoraphobic and narsistic
* He is an ASS stuck at the bottom of a well that he dug and fell into
* I will take and glaze the fat ass on the right

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:07 am

Meglamaniac . egotist . Paranoid. Myalgic encephalomyelitis. To name a few.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:27 am

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xm ... -2007-CURR

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:48 am

Wow. Reading those results. Point after point...line after line. He lost on everything. Hard.
My favorite was #11 where they basically laugh off Vinnie for taking 6 years to make his claim.

#12 also had to be rough. It says in language even I can understand: Vinnie gets a songwriting royalty but he has no ownership of those songs.

eddiepagechicago · Post by **eddiepagechicago** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:27 pm

SOME OF YOU GUYS ARE REPEATING WHAT I HAVE SAID FOR YEARS!!!
STOP RIDING ON MY COAT TAILS KIDDO'S....

just kidding...by hey, i'm glad some of you finally see things for the way it all should be seen.

RISE ALL CREATURES...AND PLEASE STOP GIVING YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY TO genie 'n paulie's billion dollar retirement fund.

WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER FOR US TO JUST WRITE A CHECK TO VINNIE THAN TO SPEND COUNTLESS DOLLARS ON MONSTER BOOKS / CONCERTS / CD'S / CRAP CRAP AND MORE KISS CRAP??? OH WAIT, I'M SURE THERE WILL BE MONSTER ENERGY DRINKS WITH KISS FACES ON THEM TOO...

oh for fuck's sake...

Post by **Genebaby** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:51 pm

Eddie, Gene, Paul and the Kiss machine put out products, at reasonable prices usually, that people want to buy. You can't blame people for giving them $$$. They are doing something to deserve it.

We just wish Vinnie had done the same all these years, and he still could.

1031 · Post by **1031** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:20 pm

This is beating a dead horse, for a guy that feels he was screwed over he kept going back for more. I have read every piece of legislation on the law suites. He did not get screwed, you dont get paid on feelings. Nor do you get to adjust your pay after a job is done. Not one of his claims were proved, not one. Not only where they not proved
there was no evidence provided, and he just fucking lied about everything. The statement he should have been paid more is based on hind sight and nothing else. If I pay you to write a song you sell me the song for $1.00 plus I give 30% of royalties. Because I dont know the song will be a hit or not. So you sold me the song its mine, now I ask you 50 times to please sign the agreement on the royalties, I all ready have the receipt for the song so I could just go fuck you on the royalties, but I file them as we agreed. Then you come back 20 years late and say I fucked you. I would say go fuck your self you ant getting shit.

Vinnie did what he did because he thought he could get over on them like he did everyone else. He got his ass kicked he deserved to loose and is owed nothing more than he got.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:10 pm

Why didn't his own lawyers tell him this? Oh because they wated his money.

Eddipe p. Chicago, a lot of people did send a check to vinnie and look what happened?

Funny how he changed from metaluna to metaluma . He did that on other things too.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:01 pm

Vinnie misses out too because kiss will not put out vv kiss stuff, concerts, toys etc that will promote vv's own.career because they know he will sue them. Even if nothing he can sue them for he will.sue them.
He hurts his own career for lack off vv kiss stuff out there.

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:40 pm

Before anyone does anything, they should get their earnings in writing. The courts weigh evidence. They recognize contractual agreements and unions, not someone's "fair share".

Vinnie's right on an emotional level. But not in the way of the world. He should leave KISS alone. Use his auxiliary extroverted intuition function to move on to future possibilities. Instead of getting wrapped up in "fairness".

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:35 pm

He just pinned his whole life on suing kiss. Bad choice. In his egotistical mind he believes he saved kiss and that's the basis of his suing I believe.
Also he thinks that kiss have spent millions of dollars defending themselves against vv but its not true, kiss have legal insurance.
He has no confidence in his own music and ability anymore and he values himself way too much.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:45 pm

doublev2 wrote:Vinnie misses out too because kiss will not put out vv kiss stuff, concerts, toys etc that will promote vv's own.career because they know he will sue them. Even if nothing he can sue them for he will.sue them.
He hurts his own career for lack off vv kiss stuff out there.

This is a really good point. If he would've just played nice during the Revenge writing sessions he could still be writing with them. They would be saying nice things about him and putting out videos of him, promoting him peripherally. Free publicity.

Streetbeat · Post by **Streetbeat** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:11 pm

i think he changed metaluna to metaluma because metaluna's name could be possible problem
because the box set problem

1031 · Post by **1031** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:37 am

When he started writing for Kiss the band was not selling tickets or new records and their iconic lead guitarist was on the skids. So there was no idea what was going to happen on the next record, if it would sell or not. When he got the go to join Kiss everything was still up in the air, ticket sales for the tour was still not great. Any other band that did not have it together business wise, this would have been the death rattle of the band. A lot of other great bands that came up in the 70's did not make it through the start of glam metal. The reason they made through this time was because Kiss was savvy enough in the music business to not end up ignored when this change in music was going on. Look at the rotation on MTV when I love it loud came out Kiss was not the typical music being run at that point on MTV.

So instead of Vinne recognizing that he just joined one of those very very very rare bands that have staying power and enough business sense to make it the long haul and just adapt to the bands model he becomes a pain in the ass prima donna right off the bat. This is before record sales numbers were even solidly in and the record was paid off, no one was even seeing a dime yet and Kiss used any advance as a roll of the dice on the upcoming tour.

So you have a band at there most critical moment in their history barely seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and the guy they just hired is doing everything to sabotage it. I can clearly see why Gene and Paul have the attitude they do when it comes to Vinne.

I am not slighting Vinne's ability to write or his playing, but if Kiss was ignored by the music machine as so many were and creatures didn't sell because of it despite the songs being good or not, it would be Vinne the guy who sunk Kiss or simply Vinne who?

And despite another shot at the brass ring.. he did it again. Truly what would you have done if this was your band and you knew the guy was very talented but he ended up being a escaped mental patient and did what Vinne did.

So when I hear or read Kiss screwed Vinne all I can do is

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:28 am

Two things that saved kiss. Taking off make up and having s catchy tune to promote it. Vinnie had a hand I'm the tune but any good song would have been enough . It was the make up.
Vv musical was great but I don't believe he saved kiss . Creatures didn't financially save kiss.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:59 am

doublev2 wrote:Two things that saved kiss. Taking off make up and having s catchy tune to promote it. Vinnie had a hand I'm the tune but any good song would have been enough . It was the make up.
Vv musical was great but I don't believe he saved kiss . Creatures didn't financially save kiss.

When you hear the list of guitarists that were being considered for replacing Ace Frehley it becomes clear that ANY of them would've been a "kick in the pants". Any of them would've brought that emerging, finger-tapping flashy style that KISS was looking for. But would any of those guitarists have brought the songs that Vinnie brought?

And then I listen to Creatures, LIU and the first VVI album and a lot of the leaked demos...Vinnie was recycling a LOT of material that he had created with other bands before he joined KISS or formed VVI. I'd be willing to bet that there are a few musicians from Vinnie's past that heard Creatures, LIU and VVI and said, "Hey...that sounds an awful lot like the song(s) we were working on!"

I guess the point I'm very poorly trying to make is that Vinnie (or anyone on his behalf) taking 100% credit for KISS revival is ignoring lots of other factors.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:31 pm

Vinnie had a part but so did kiss themselves and the producer. Personally I love lick it up but I.think the only reason it did platinum is because of the make up.and single. I don't think any song other than the two videos were on the tips of everyone's tongues . I love them but truthfully it was the make up. If they had stayed in make it would have been interesting to see if it would have gone platinum.

Another note here's how royalties are collected http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_publ ... lar_music)

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:38 pm

Vv will be saying his usual thing that kiss paid off the judge and most likely blaming their religion.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:32 pm

I agree, it was the makeup being removed that sparked major interest for KISS and the LIU album. I Love It Loud was a catchy tune too... had KISS taken off the makeup during Creatures it would've gone platinum just like LIU. Those two albums are too similar to say otherwise. It may have even done better in '82 because with each passing year people would probably care less and less about KISS removing the makeup (with them being looked at as unhip and an outdated 70's relic then).

Hell, the Elder may have gone platinum if they had removed the makeup in '81 but maybe not since it was so different. Metal was making a resurgence at the time and KISS was smart to jump on that bandwagon.

With that being said, I do believe Vinnie brought something a little extra to KISS with his songwriting. They could've hired a million other shredders, but Vinnie had that little something extra (too bad the ego and delusions overruled).