daughter into vv

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:19 am

Well played vv to my daughter for the first time and she digs his music. Bad news she argued with me saying that kiss should have paid him.

Post by **Genebaby** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:41 am

Cool, and, oh dear!

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:07 am

She's right. They SHOULD'VE paid him...but the reality is that they were not legally required to do so.
She sounds like a bright kid.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:08 am

erg2 wrote: She sounds like a bright kid.

Yeah, she must be adopted!!!

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:50 pm

shramiac wrote:
erg2 wrote: She sounds like a bright kid.
Yeah, she must be adopted!!!

Shram...that was hilarious

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:59 pm

doublev2 wrote:Well played vv to my daughter for the first time and she digs his music. Bad news she argued with me saying that kiss should have paid him.

Ha ha ha. Now you've got at least two girls arguing against you.

Post by **Genebaby** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:06 pm

Kiss paid Vinnie what they owed him, just not what he thought he was worth.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:24 pm

Yeah, vinnie got paid a lot of money but vv thinks he saved kiss and is worth a lot more. I.don't argue he wrote some great music because he did, I just argue he ruins it every time when he didn't need to.

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:12 pm

Royalties aren't too demanding. Vinnie Vincent saved KISS from becoming sell outs...well...temporarily.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:36 pm

Creatures turned the curve and vv only wrote 3 tunes so its not only vinnie. Vinnie , Adam Mitchell, Eric Carr, michael j Jackson, all those creatures session musicians and Paul and gene were responcable . Without Paul and gebe seeing something in vinnie then no vinnie in kiss. I also don't think kiss made any bad albums before vinnie joined. I know vv was my favourite guitar player but its not all vv that changed the kiss style and vv didn't even play in a heavy metal band before kiss apart from warrior which wasn't as heavy as creatures or Liu. The heavy metal sound of kiss I do not think was vv at all. Killers was getting a little harder before vv joined .

If vv keeps believing he saved kiss which he didn't then he will never make a come back. Vv is not the kind of guy who needs false ego pumping. He was a great part if kiss but not the saviour. Eddie van Halen or any of those early 80s players would have been great just as you can hear on creatures.

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:54 pm

doublev2 wrote:Creatures turned the curve and vv only wrote 3 tunes so its not only vinnie. Vinnie , Adam Mitchell, Eric Carr, michael j Jackson, all those creatures session musicians and Paul and gene were responcable . Without Paul and gebe seeing something in vinnie then no vinnie in kiss. I also don't think kiss made any bad albums before vinnie joined. I know vv was my favourite guitar player but its not all vv that changed the kiss style and vv didn't even play in a heavy metal band before kiss apart from warrior which wasn't as heavy as creatures or Liu. The heavy metal sound of kiss I do not think was vv at all. Killers was getting a little harder before vv joined .

If vv keeps believing he saved kiss which he didn't then he will never make a come back. Vv is not the kind of guy who needs false ego pumping. He was a great part if kiss but not the saviour. Eddie van Halen or any of those early 80s players would have been great just as you can hear on creatures.

You oughtta know that I say what I feel. A year and a half ago, I had no idea about the double v. I always talk about how awesome Randy Rhoads was, he isn't around to hear. It's the TRUTH. If I call someone a guitar god, it isn't an ego stroke. You should know by now, I don't kiss butt. I mean it. Eddie Van Halen is a guitar god. He would sound awesome on any KISS album...just like Vin...so what's your point? Van Halen was doing better than KISS at the time....maybe EVH had some spats with David Lee Roth, but he changed his mind about splitting up Van Halen. And he had his reasons for staying in a successful group.

Randy Rhoads started out in classical. There were alot of heavy metal guitar players that started out in different genres. They brought a different style to the sound, but still rocked. That's not a valid argument. Lick it up was not a tame album by any stretch of the imagination. VV rocked in KISS, and sounded more metal than KISS sounds now.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:16 pm

ok. yes. but I do not think VV turned kiss metal. thats all.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:28 am

doublev2 wrote:ok. yes. but I do not think VV turned kiss metal. thats all.

I agree. I think they were heading that way as far back as THE ELDER. Vinnie just helped to cement what KISS's sound as a metal band would be. Which stayed more or less intact for the next 2 albums.

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:46 pm

Did someone say "the Elder"?

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:33 pm

yes "mr. blackwell" was one of the heaviest gene tunes at the time! also "the oath" was pretty damn metal too...

Post by **Genebaby** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:38 pm

Yeah, The Oath kicks ass!!!!

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:46 pm

A few other tunes are heavy too. In fact I.think every.song is heavy or at least dark. I think it was the darker feel that killed this record commercially. It was no soft record like unmasked.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:56 pm

Shhhhhh. Don't mention The Elder! You'll wake Eddie!!!

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:51 am

Yeah . Let's have Eddie get some good resting time.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:26 am

Mr. Page has some presents for you guys. Be nice !!!!

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:38 pm

YOU GUYS DON'T UNDERSTAND... VINNIE IS GOD!

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:52 am

THE OATH is, without a doubt, a metal song. ONLY YOU, MR. BLACKWELL and ESCAPE FROM THE ISLAND...these are all metal songs OR strongly leaning that way.

I've always felt that, musically, The Elder was the defining point of what KISS's sound was going to be post-originals. If you listen to THE OATH, it's a lot like what you heard on the opening tracks for LICK IT UP with EXCITER or ANIMALIZE with I'VE HAD ENOUGH (INTO THE FIRE) or CREATURES OF THE NIGHT with CREATURES OF THE NIGHT. Fast, grinding riff into a fast tempo song.

If you look at it that way, KISS was already heading in this direction well before Vinnie weaseled his way into Gene's mansion. It just so happened that Vinnie was already trying to break into the emerging metal movement with Warrior and had the chops and writing...and KISS supposedly didn't have time to wait to properly try out players to see if they fit.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:15 am

Vinnie lit a fire under their ass that quickly went out after he left.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:06 am

Ouch.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:13 am

Other than unholy did vv'd revenge tunes sound better than post lick it up material?

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:03 pm

PinkWiz wrote:YOU GUYS DON'T UNDERSTAND... VINNIE IS GOD!

So is Ace.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:19 pm

doublev2 wrote:Other than unholy did V V 's revenge tunes sound better than post lick it up material?

Yes.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:23 pm

Ok because I never hear anyone talk of heats of chrome and the other one and never noticed them played live.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:48 am

I read a thread on here that said something about HEART OF CHROME being different before Stanley added his 2¢. I've always like HOC the way it is. I wish the guitars were a little grungier, but otherwise it's a fun song. Does anyone here remember that discussion and what was different?

BigEd · Post by **BigEd** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:13 am

Heart Of Chrome is an awesome song !!!

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:47 am

Ok so the verdict is that vv's revenge songs were best since lick it up material? Thanks

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:52 am

Tears are falling, king of the mountain, who wants to be lonley, thrills in the night, I've had enough I would argue are better than vv's revenge tunes or as good as.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:23 am

doublev2 wrote:Tears are falling, king of the mountain, who wants to be lonley, thrills in the night, I've had enough I would argue are better than vv's revenge tunes or as good as.

I get what you are saying now.
I didn't feel UNHOLY was the right song to be the lead single. The album got some good press and then UNHOLY, which is a song that would not really appeal to non-KISS fans or casual metal fans. I think the Vinnie songs were better than most of the stuff on HOT IN THE SHADE, but the LICK IT UP album tunes are overall better compositions and better lyrically. I'm not saying the REVENGE songs are bad...just not at the same level.

LICK IT UP = A
REVENGE = B+

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:03 am

What I am saying is if vv stayed no guarantees that the level of lick it up could be maintained but i do think it would have been cool to see what would happen.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:04 am

I just can not remember the other tune that vv wrote on revenge? Damn.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:14 am

doublev2 wrote:Tears are falling, king of the mountain, who wants to be lonley, thrills in the night, I've had enough I would argue are better than vv's revenge tunes or as good as.

There are some that are AS GOOD AS. One would hope that they could write at least a few good tunes within an 7 year span.

If Vinnie would've written all of Revenge (with P&G changing a word or two for their co-writing credit

) , That album would stand up to the greatness of C.O.T.N. and L.I.U.

We always just talk of the co-writes and solos that Vinnie played on Creatures, but I can hear his rhythm playing all over that album.
Heart Of Chrome (from Revenge) has Vinnie's classic rhythm guitar interplay throughout.
I strongly believe that Rick Derringer was heavily inspired by Vinnie's original Exciter solo.
I strongly believe that Bruce Kulick was heavily inspired by Vinnie's Unholy solo.

BigEd · Post by **BigEd** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:05 am

Tears are falling and Who wants to be lonely are good songs...but the others are just lame !!! Vinnie's songs on Revenge truly blows away anything that KISS wrote in between LIU & Revenge....just my opinion !!!

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:27 am

Hi Big Ed. Good to see you around, man.

I couldn't stand the KISS "green glove" period. I liked the song "Heaven's on fire" from Animalize but the rest of the album...meh. KISS lost that "crank it up" quality after LIU. When you don't want to reach over and turn up the volume, KISS has lost their "sound".

BigEd · Post by **BigEd** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:26 am

Sorry KMA, I did temporarily forget about Heaven's On Fire, I do love Paul's vocals & the sound of heavier guitar work... It's the only song on that album this is "ANY" good !!!

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:37 pm

VV could never have improved on such inspired genius:

[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:18 pm

VV Wriiten Revenge Songs had to sound different to LIU. Different era & different demographic.
I think VV Wriiten Revenge Songs are written with the intention of being more heavy groove oriented. And with shit loads more layers.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:27 am

There are songs I really like on every KISS album, but I've said it before and I say it again here: LICK IT UP is the most overall, consistently good KISS album in their catalog.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:51 am

Creatures for me but only just. LIU a close second.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:56 am

i think the production sound sells Creatures on me and I like every tune on Creatures. A few on LIU I don't care for (Give me more, 8th Day) but if the drums sounded like Creatures then I may have switched. Both are great.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:08 am

I always thought the Creatures era makeup look would've went well with the LIU album... Vinnie playin the Million To One solo in full Ankh Warrior regalia would've rocked. Or Gene spittin blood to Not For The Innocent...

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:46 pm

PinkWiz wrote:VV could never have improved on such inspired genius:

[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]

That stinks.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:40 am

shramiac wrote:Creatures for me but only just. LIU a close second.

doublev2 wrote:i think the production sound sells Creatures on me and I like every tune on Creatures. A few on LIU I don't care for (Give me more, 8th Day) but if the drums sounded like Creatures then I may have switched. Both are great.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE me some CREATURES OF THE NIGHT album. As a drummer how could I not? But, with all the contributors to the songwriting and the playing I've always felt that the songs do not sound like a "group". It sounds more like they had 10 songs from a bunch of different sources and they figured out how to record them so they sounded similar.

On LICK IT UP it sounds like they were all written and composed in a rehearsal space together and then the band recorded them together. (Who knows if that's how it really happened...probably not...I'm just saying that's how it sounds to me.) I would also argue that the physical playing sounds more advanced on LIU.

Song by song? CotN wins. Consistency of style, playing and attitude? LIU wins.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:50 pm

KissMyAss wrote:
PinkWiz wrote:VV could never have improved on such inspired genius:

[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]

That stinks.

Ya think?

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:02 am

PinkWiz wrote:
KissMyAss wrote:
PinkWiz wrote:VV could never have improved on such inspired genius:

[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]

That stinks.
Ya think?

I know.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:44 pm

not sure if this is true but I have an interview with Paul from 1983 and he said that the Lick it up album was basically written on the road during the Creatures tour.