Vinnie Vincent Special Part 4 - Decibel Geek Podcast

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:15 pm

Love kills also was not played on radio.
I dont actualy think it was released as a single in usa.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:18 pm

It was so obscure they even left the video off of the nightmare on elm st box set which inckuded dokken and others

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:53 pm

Great to see a site with the real info:

http://kat.ph/vinnie-vincent-invasion-l ... 98474.html

All Systems Go is a 1988 album by Vinnie Vincent Invasion. it is the band's second and last official studio album.

With new vocalist Mark Slaughter, All Systems Go peaked at No. 64 on the Billboard Top 100 Album Chart in 1988 although it failed to go Gold, selling around 450,000 copies. Two singles from the album, "Love Kills" and "That Time of Year" were released with corresponding music videos. The song "Love Kills" was also featured in the soundtrack for A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master, and the video features scenes from the film. MTV hosted an entire hour for the film A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master which featured Robert Englund as Freddy Krueger and guest Vinnie Vincent promoting the music video. A third track from the album, "Ashes to Ashes" also received some radio airplay.

The band opened for Iron Maiden on their massive Somewhere in Time tour to support the album but broke up after the completion of the tour.

The singles "That Time of Year" and "Love Kills" are 2 of 4 Vinnie Vincent Invasion songs featured on the 2008 tribute album "KISS MY ANKH: A Tribute To Vinnie Vincent." "That Time of Year" features Sheldon Tarsha of Adler's Appetite, Ryan Roxie from the Alice Cooper band, Marko Pukkila of Altaria and Troy Patrick Farrell of White Lion. "Love Kills" was recorded by Vic Rivera and Kelli McCloud.

Vinnie Vincent Invasion was an American heavy metal/glam metal band formed in 1984 by former KISS guitarist Vinnie Vincent.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:55 pm

And just to show how obscure vvi were vv never was featured in readers top 10 guitarists even in kerrang with much publicity. Especially looked over in 1988.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:57 pm

Some radio can mean once but show me the ashes single please?

You can not argue that virtually no radio.. mtv and merchandise.

Publicity mostly paid for by label .. yes. But the rest .. No.

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:27 pm

Stumbled upon an old box filled with more Chrysalis stuff:

FOR STICK IT TO YA:

MARKET ADVANTAGES: Slaughter has developed a strong, active fan club which will be mobilzed for initial street marketing, activating radio, retail and video.

Formerly members of the Vinnie Vincent Invasion, MARK AND DANA ALREADY HAVE HIGH AWARENESS LEVEL ON THE STREET.

Slaughter will be performing across America for the better part of 190.

The band will be highly visible prior to the release with articles and photos in various hard rock magazines.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:26 pm

Bullshit they had very little profile . This is spin because chysalis had to justify how much they lost on vvi.
Talking to you is like teaching in a special needs school.
Were you actually born in 88?

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:16 pm

what is weird in a time when MTV ruled is why VVI didn't have a video out just prior to the release of the album like most bands. It took 2 months to get first video out and it was a ballad. Another weird thing. I used to think it was a record label mess up but I have no idea and maybe some problems were arising back then too. But its very odd to spend money on magazine publicity and ads and not have a video out on mtv.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:21 pm

VVI had played half of their tour before the first mtv video came out for that time of year I believe on July 16 1988 (give or take a week either side).

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:32 pm

i was always critical of Chrysalis for not doing a video for Back on the Streets or No Substitute (Bobby said No Substitute was supposed to be second video) but it looks like the manager messed it all up with not signing Robert. The record label could not put out another video with Robert's voice after he sued and won and they couldnt re-record vocals due to hefty tour schedule. Maybe at end of tour they should have done a video with mark's voice but it was too late most likely. The real fuck up from day one was the handling of Robert and most likely the single most damaging reason why VVI were never a big act.
Then I was critical of them not putting out Ashes as a video before or at the release date of ASG (or at least any video at release date) and also the fact that they were not able to get VVI radio play but now I see that bad blood had boiled over and this must have had some effect.
I would actually like to hear Vinnie's take on why a video wasn't put out earlier. Maybe not enough time? But the Robert thing had a domino effect on the band and really was the begging of the end back in 86.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:36 pm

i suppose they could have put out bots or subsitute without a band performance so no miming from Mark. They could have just had a video with VV driving around in a car with no band performance and that would have been ok i guess. I still don't know what was going on but it wasn't good i don't think.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:42 pm

he could have done something like the the norum video without the live performance with no other band members in the video
[youtube][/youtube]

that said Norum's Back on the streets tanked too. BUT it actually had more plays on the headbangers ball in 1988 than any ASG video. But it still didn't became a hit.. so no certainties that BOTS would have been a hit for VInnie either.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:00 am

Norum's version was inferior to Vinnie's.
If Vinnie would've put it out, it would've been a hit.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:02 am

True but it doesnt mean it would be a hit .

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:09 am

A better chance.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:16 am

Yeah but the vvi image would have posdibly killed that tune commercially.

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:33 am

poserboy71 wrote:Norum's version was inferior to Vinnie's.
If Vinnie would've put it out, it would've been a hit.

Very true! Or had KISS put it out.

I just love the stupidity that goes "fact" around here.

I mean, Peter recorded Tears and that album did so John Waite's version should have done nothing.

Kane Roberts had a song Cher had a hit with. Why not Kane.

It's absolute nonsense from people who have no clue about the record business and yet the ones without any knowledge make the most noise.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:38 am

Brainsaw wrote:
I just love the stupidity that goes "fact" around here.

There is no need to talk like that.

Dino is expressing his opinion based on being raised by parents who were a part of the industry.
All of us are smart enough to accept everyone's opinions .

There is some truth in everything that has come from both you and Dino.

Chill a bit.

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:44 am

poserboy71 wrote:
Brainsaw wrote:
I just love the stupidity that goes "fact" around here.
There is no need to talk like that.

Dino is expressing his opinion based on being raised by parents who were a part of the industry.
All of us are smart enough to accept everyone's opinions .

There is some truth in everything that has come from both you and Dino.

Chill a bit.

Those questions he keeps asking for a zillion times have already been answered from radio, to how they could have done the videos for VVI with the Robert problem, the ASG tour merchandise, where Love Kills placed in year in poll, the radio play for ASG you name it.

Because this person wasn't around at all, had no connection to VVI or Chrysalis you name it-- they spout stuff they "claim to remember in High School. No matter that its all false and has been proven so.

I mean, after the flat out lie about minimal magazine coverage to promote ASG PROVEN here and that didn't even include all the huge articles from May to the end of July. Nor did it include all the endorsement ads.

Then the continued lies that Mark and Dana didn't have a big profile when stick It To Ya came out.

Everything based it FACT is dismissed with .... uh... no ... uh...

Theres opinion and then there's FACT.

And why you don't tell him he doesn't have to spam the board with 5 or 6 replies to the same thing in 10 minutes when there's been no response. Use the edit button people and just add to the already useless garbage you've posted. It's going to be ignored anyways because facts matter and not opinions which are totally false.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:23 am

I bow out of this. Its a waste of time. Vvi was not a huge band or even a big one but good luck to you believing that. I dont care anymore
This is my last reply to brainsaws garbage.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:31 am

As far as information in magazines, the magazines had to be available.
I was lucky if my local grocery store carried anything other than Hit Parader and Circus... then later Metal Edge.

I would see a Rock Scene and Kerrang every once in a while.

BS, Please share YOUR OPINION on how ASG sold 400,000 PLUS in the first two months of release yet fell off the face of the Earth within 3 -4 months.
Something with those quick legs would have easily tripped into Platinum status.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:39 am

True those magazines were not so easy to find everywhere and were not bought by all rock metal fans. Kerrang in the usa was sonetimes in underground record stores. I used to see it in pawnbrokers that specialized in guitar equipment. Those were the days when you coukd pick up a great guitar for nothing because the store owner had no idea what it was. Loved those stores.. usually in the seedy part of town.

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:50 am

poserboy71 wrote:As far as information in magazines, the magazines had to be available.
I was lucky if my local grocery store carried anything other than Hit Parader and Circus... then later Metal Edge.

I would see a Rock Scene and Kerrang every once in a while.

BS, Please share YOUR OPINION on how ASG sold 400,000 PLUS in the first two months of release yet fell off the face of the Earth within 3 -4 months.
Something with those quick legs would have easily tripped into Platinum status.

I don't know what city you were in, but I do know that we'd go check places all over. 7-11's etc you could find most of them. Sometimes it was harder to find Kerrang and some of those titles. But the Metal Edge, Rock Scene, Circus, Hit Parader, Faces were usually widely available.

I've shared that reasoning other places....but I'll do it again.

Ok, by early July they had shipped almost 400,000 units. Now keep in mind that was the initial shipment of 250,000 and then re-order after re-order after re-order. We aren't talking a KISS overship kind of thing. And of course, HITS trade backed that up as did Billboard.

I would imagine that it went gold by sometime in August. The problem then, the writing was already on the wall. That's why you saw Love Kills featuring Mark Slaughter.

Vinnie was already fighting openly about the album, new cover, adding back the guitars etc months before that.

So, you just never submit the album for certification. You pull off the publicity etc. Vinnie and the label part ways. The had the options on Mark and Dana.

And that's why in the marketing for "Stick It To Ya" (I mentioned elsewhere) they talk about their fan base etc that will be vital to push the new record. And that's what happened. "Stick It To Ya" (I could swear they got the awards in Texas--not positive). The RIAA might be off on their dates. They are on the record release so they might be off a couple of weeks on when certified.

Either way, its less than 3 months or less than 4 months. It happened quickly. And those awards were made before the HITS tour kicked off or before "Fly To The Angles" came out in July.

Granted, not all of the VVI fans followed them and bought it immediately, but they had a great start.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:56 am

Wrong vvi broke up in august 88 and slaughter came out january 1990 the day before the super bowl in new orleans as I was their.
Look. You think asg was huge I know it wasnt. Lets leave it that way . Thanks.

I dont believe vvi was in that poll but plesse show me a scan.

If they were in its a faked poll. But I dont believe it anyway. Anyone see that poll?
Yes magazines were easy to get but not everyone got them. Either way I say vvi was a very obscure band in 88 and you say they were bigger than dokken .lets let it go

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:07 am

Hey poserboy,

See how untruthful that person is... .after claiming to bow out....last reply....have U seen how many more replies! ha ha Just one after another after another. Once again, no facts or anything of substance to back up those totally false claims.

Didn't even go back and find all the answers that are already out there.

Its just hilarious.

But nothing funnier than how all the trades and Chrysalis etc conspired and even though theres all the data provided showing the huge push in magazines ....all the 4-6 page features on the band. All that was "minimal".

Radio adds on 65 AOR stations in early June for "Ashes" but no radio play. You name it. It's laughable.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:28 am

I'm not doubting that VVI had a large push behind them. We have speculated before as to why those albums didn't become huge. It is a crime, NO DOUBT !!!!
I also must agree with Dino's viewpoint about the label and management adding numbers to sales to promote their bands.

As for Dino, You will understand his style soon enough. As I remember, didn't you say that YOU weren't going to stick around YET you ar still here.

Please stay. I dig the facts that you are presenting. You are well informed. Your information adds even more hurt and mystery as to why Vinnie's career took a shit.
Just be open to other member's opinions and facts about what they witnessed in their own lives.

ALSO,Would you care to introduce yourself ?
Your FACTS would be taken a little more seriously if you did so.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:52 am

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:53 am

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:59 am

poserboy71 wrote:Norum's version was inferior to Vinnie's.
If Vinnie would've put it out, it would've been a hit.

And see how our memories are.... I had forgotten how well the song had actually done for John.

Billboard Singles
Year Single Chart Peak
1988 Back On The Streets Mainstream Rock 34

See, that's why ya don't trust "memories" =)

That video is still one of the all time worst ......

The biggest shame is that Ace didn't get to use it. Also a shame that FC didn't sound as good as some of those club shows he was doing before then. How songs like Animal got left off.

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:06 pm

poserboy71 wrote:I'm not doubting that VVI had a large push behind them. We have speculated before as to why those albums didn't become huge. It is a crime, NO DOUBT !!!!
I also must agree with Dino's viewpoint about the label and management adding numbers to sales to promote their bands.

The fastest selling album in Chrysalis history and then an album that was probably gold in 4 months or so. Granted, by that time, no reason to submit or promote the fact when you've parted ways with the guy. Then it makes you look pretty stupid.

And I certainly hope you would agree that while label and management can lie in the press about the numbers....its a TOTALLY DIFFERENT STORY when what they say is actually backed up.

Its one then for Gene Simmons to make claims that are outrageous (and people still believe him) even though the facts don't fit with what he is claiming.

But when the trades back up what is being said, I think even you would concede thats a different matter entirely. Then the two match and that = TRUTH.

So you can be assured that when Chrysalis was talking sales....you can see the huge jumps in Billboard.

Not to mention HITS was showing an even better job at retail than Billboard was.

And of course radio play was backed up.....

So when its all taken into consideration....its easy to see that Chrysalis was right and that ASG was already on the 3rd or 4th re-orders from stores in 2 months time.

There is nothing at all that has been offered up as anything legitimate to counter that. Nothing.

And if nothing else than the quick rise of Slaughter -- that's just the icing on the proven cake.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:06 pm

Brainsaw wrote:
poserboy71 wrote:Norum's version was inferior to Vinnie's.
If Vinnie would've put it out, it would've been a hit.

...See, that's why ya don't trust "memories" =)...

I trust my memories because I care enough to remember how they made me feel then and how they make me feel now.
In the case of Vinnie Vincent, ALL I HAVE ARE MEMORIES.
His recent shit-storms don't have enough power to destroy my incredible memories.

As far as Norum's version, I could give a fuck if it had become a #1 hit, his version sucked compared to Vinnie's version.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:08 pm

I like John's film clip!

I like his version of BotS too. Would be better than anything Ace could do!

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:11 pm

BS, At least show us a few of those trade papers...

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:54 pm

shramiac wrote:I like John's film clip!

I like his version of BotS too. Would be better than anything Ace could do!

To each there own!

I remember first hearing this back in 85 and loving the song. I loved all the Ace demo stuff from then

[youtube][/youtube]

Richie and Ace made a great team.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 pm

Brainsaw wrote:
[youtube][/youtube]

Richie and Ace made a great team.

Richie's vocals on that are painful... clearly not suited for his voice. Tod Howarth would've probably done it justice. Norum's version was alright. Still my fave is the Warrior demo with Vinnie on vox... to my ears that is the most "natural" version.

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:26 pm

PinkWiz wrote:
Brainsaw wrote:
[youtube][/youtube]

Richie and Ace made a great team.
Richie's vocals on that are painful... clearly not suited for his voice. Tod Howarth would've probably done it justice. Norum's version was alright. Still my fave is the Warrior demo with Vinnie on vox... to my ears that is the most "natural" version.

Tod Howarth ruined FC IMO.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:39 pm

Don't get me wrong, I loved Richie's gritty voice, but not on THAT tune.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:27 pm

How did you hear it in 85 you lying scuzzball.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:32 pm

I forgot you had access to ace and vinnies tapes .. you need to be given the boot you lying little troll. I

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:36 pm

Unless you had connections to ace no bootlegs of aces stuff was out in 85.so tell me where you heard it in 85 ?
I will tell you in 85 I was a massive kiss bootleg collector.

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:04 pm

PinkWiz wrote:Don't get me wrong, I loved Richie's gritty voice, but not on THAT tune.

Everyone has their own tastes.

Have you seen Ace many times in concert? I lost count. Seen him in some good sized venues and seen him play to around 100 people.

I would have loved to have been at the show Peter mentioned. What did Pete say...like 13 showed up? I've been to a few shows like that for a major act. Just terribly promoted.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:07 pm

how did you hear aces bots in 85? how did you get cherokee studios tapes?

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:13 pm

where did you get Ace demos back in 1985?? please tell me? Where were you hanging out to get these?

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:16 pm

Where did Ace play to 100 people? dont just fly this shit around give me the convert date and venue. Maybe he was playing in Myanmar to get 100 people.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:26 pm

lets be fair on Scarlet on the BOTS demos..it could have been one take on the song.. I am sure he would have sounded good with Eddie Kramer the master engineer he was.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:27 pm

brainsaw - you are not getting away with my questions..

1. where in 1985 did you listen to Ace version of BOTS?

2. How did you get tapes from Cherokee studios.

I think if you can not answer these you should go away.

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:36 pm

poserboy71 wrote:BS, At least show us a few of those trade papers...

It wouldn't matter if they were posted. You already have the Billboard numbers and how fast it rose.

The HITS retail stuff etc would somehow be dismissed.

I mean Vinnie's last minute thrown together tour didn't do well so that supposedly proves something. NOT Too bad he didn't have Lita Ford opening for him. That and tickets on sale for months and promoted correctly can make a world of difference...except to those whose only "insight" into the record business is going inside a store and having purchased a cd.

Heck, going by album sales HITS should have flopped. Good thing they had 2 platinum acts opening for them (old for Slaughter by the time the tour kicked off and then platinum 3 or 4 months later--on to double. And Winger had 2 huge albums in a row. KISS and their gold HITS album could sure thank them for bringing in the peeps.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:57 pm

You didnt answer the two simple questions I asked. Please answer?

ankh · Post by **ankh** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:42 pm

if it wasn't for that recycled tissue pomp(copyright of Kerang review

) called "Forever" that reached no8 in the charts, there would have no tour at all.promoters had cold feet about kiss touring,kiss even went as far as spreading rumours about a show with makeup and a show with the unamsked tyour lineup.Then they nixed that as "just rumours"as soon as "forever" went into the top ten.

Ace was asked to open for them and maybe play in the encores,but he did turn the offer down.

BigEd · Post by **BigEd** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:17 am

Ace's version of "BOTS" was an abortion gone bad...Norum's was decent but Vinnie's Demo versions is unbelievable with it's raw guitar sound and amazing vocals...just image if it was polished and released as a single !!!