Invasion record sales and were the stood in metal 1986

1031 · Post by **1031** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:34 am

Ok there seems to be a lot of discussion on how great Invasion sales were. while released numbers are around 400,000 for VV1 these more than likely shipped numbers and never made it gold. All systems go was even worse with 250,000 sold / or more than likely shipped.

Now while there is a lot blame to go to the record company being a mess at the time with pressing issues and promotion lacking. The fact is even if you take everything at face value as far as numbers and say they all sold the real problem was that the band didn't hold up with its competition at the time. here were a lot of metal albums released that charted a lot worse and out sold them by far.

AC/DC - Who Made Who
Alice Cooper - Constrictor
Bon Jovi - Slippery When Wet
Cinderella - Night Songs
David Lee Roth - Eat 'Em and Smile
Iron Maiden - Somewhere in Time
Judas Priest - Turbo
Megadeth - Peace Sells... But Who's Buying?
Metallica - Master of Puppets
Ozzy Osbourne - The Ultimate Sin
Van Halen - 5150

Even a slow starter like Poison's - Look What the Cat Dragged In smoked them in the end.
The sales has to this date never run over gold or both albums combined never hitting Platinum. Even W.A.S.P. Inside the Electric Circus a horrible album went gold. The Invasion had very little popularity and this was at a time where if you were a metal head you were hunting for any new band to check out. What ever the reason the albums just didn't click with the buying public. Now they were great albums no doubt, But to try and convince people they sold or held up in sales or popularity to other bands at the time is just wishful thinking.
And no matter what you say about promotion or printing issues or label problems the fact is, if the sales numbers held up or a demand for the album was greater and tour attendance numbers were growing, the label would have stepped up to the plate no matter how Vinnie acted or any other issues or excuses anyone can come up with. The label wants nothing but to make money, and if the opportunity was there to make it they would have done what ever it took.
I'm not hating on Vinnie I freaking love his music, he's a fantastic artist, but there are a lot of fantastic artists that have never sold well it just is what it is , bottom line if its not selling in the music world, you get dropped form major labels and kicked to the curb, and if you cant carve out a nitch in a inventive way to make money as a musician , its day job time or hide in a house somewhere in Tennessee time.

I just would rather spend time digging his music than playing what if and coming up with excuses why things didnt go well for him. Some of it was bad luck, bad timing , bad behavior, bad deals, poor decision's etc, but its all in the past nothing will change that. And digging up old magazine articles that have as much legitimacy as the national enquirer is a wast of time. They were all manipulated, the A&R people the sales reps the artists them selves and by the person writing the dam thing. They were nothing but to drive sales increase fan base and make the person seem more than what they were, "Rock and Roll danger boys". The last thing anyone is going to say in a fanzine is, sales are slow, attendance is poor and the band dont get along.

1031...

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:43 am

Agree with that. More like shopped sales. 250k was easy to reach in shipped sales as so many record stores.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:45 am

Great post by the way.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:12 am

1031 wrote: They were all manipulated, the A&R people the sales reps the artists them selves and by the person writing the dam thing. They were nothing but to drive sales increase fan base and make the person seem more than what they were, "Rock and Roll danger boys". The last thing anyone is going to say in a fanzine is, sales are slow, attendance is poor and the band dont get along.

1031...

Unless you were in Dokken.

Great post 1031 !!!!

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:21 am

1031 wrote:Ok there seems to be a lot of discussion on how great Invasion sales were. while released numbers are around 400,000 for VV1 these more than likely shipped numbers and never made it gold. All systems go was even worse with 250,000 sold / or more than likely shipped..

Way to NO SOURCE that at all.

And obviously someone who has never worked in the record industry if you think its all about making money and not saving face at times etc.

I already went into detail about the stupidity of labels. When they go under--I've had friends that couldn't even buy the masters from the label. They are dropped. The label just sits on it instead of getting their costs back in it.

Funny, ASG sold immediately. You can't deny that. You could, but you'd be lying in the face of actual evidence.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:31 am

Please answer my two questions.

Where did you her ace frehley bots in 1985?

Where did you get cherokee studios tapes?

You still dont answer?

It sold quickly because they are talking shipped sales.

You still can not argue that most people didnt know asg in 1988.

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:38 am

1031 wrote:Ok there seems to be a lot of discussion on how great Invasion sales were. while released numbers are around 400,000 for VV1 these more than likely shipped numbers and never made it gold.

For starters, the released numbers for VVI don't match with what the label says...

Secondly: WTF do you think GOLD albums are based on back then? Sales meant shipped.

The difference being... both Invasion and ASG had the re-orders pouring in.

And with VVI ahead of Queensryche and others ....you can start with---

AceAlive1 · Post by **AceAlive1** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:44 am

ok let me answer this the best way i know how.........the original poster said poison outsold VVI....true. but then again poison was never that big. not on a bon jovi level anyway. BUT, they were basically VVI on a better label.

im thinking invasion's album has gone gold by now.....been a few years anyway. recertified sales will probably show it.

remember this, record companies make their money by limiting costs.......so that means they might not pay to certify their own albums as gold or platinum, put our videos, do promo work, etc etc...

the smart thing to do would be send them to japan and europe.....it always works for other bands historically instead of dropping them

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:56 am

Poison not big? Are you kidding me they were massive. Please dont say you think vvi was as big as poison.. that would be so crazy.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:59 am

I got so sick of seeing poison on mtv. Poison and vvi are night and day.. oposite ends of the spectrum and no vvi has not gone gold.

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:09 am

1031 wrote: Even W.A.S.P. Inside the Electric Circus a horrible album went gold.

Where's proof of that? According to the RIAA's website they have two gold albums.

One for WASP, the other for "The Last Command".

Let me guess, you are back to using Wikipedia for your source. Try the Gold and Platinum database on the RIAA's website. =)

Also, if we went by your thinking the bands automatically get GOLD records the moment they ship that many.

Shame KISS never reached platinum status for there first 3 releases.

Destroyer was just "certified" 2 X platinum in Sept 2011

And granted while it took Poison 10 months to go GOLD with Look what the Cat Dragged In, then it was 5 weeks after going Gold, they got PLATINUM certification and then 4 1/2 months after going Platinum it was Double Platinum.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:16 am

I have not seen proof from you either. Lets just give it a rest. You dont answer my questions and we know you think vvi was top 5 acts of 88. . Lets end this. We know what you think. I guess whats in past is in the past and means nothing.

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:02 pm

AceAlive1 wrote:ok let me answer this the best way i know how.........the original poster said poison outsold VVI....true. but then again poison was never that big. not on a bon jovi level anyway. BUT, they were basically VVI on a better label.

im thinking invasion's album has gone gold by now.....been a few years anyway. recertified sales will probably show it.

remember this, record companies make their money by limiting costs.......so that means they might not pay to certify their own albums as gold or platinum, put our videos, do promo work, etc etc...

the smart thing to do would be send them to japan and europe.....it always works for other bands historically instead of dropping them

Who was as big as Bon Jovi? VVI never went multiplatinum, and Poison did. But I'm pretty sure being on a bigger label helped Poison become more successful.

At the time, Chrysalis invested more money into marketing Pat Benatar than VVI. That's probably the reason VVI didn't get as much radio airplay, and not enough videos for the Mtv age.

AceAlive1 · Post by **AceAlive1** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:07 pm

KissMyAss wrote:
AceAlive1 wrote:ok let me answer this the best way i know how.........the original poster said poison outsold VVI....true. but then again poison was never that big. not on a bon jovi level anyway. BUT, they were basically VVI on a better label.

im thinking invasion's album has gone gold by now.....been a few years anyway. recertified sales will probably show it.

remember this, record companies make their money by limiting costs.......so that means they might not pay to certify their own albums as gold or platinum, put our videos, do promo work, etc etc...

the smart thing to do would be send them to japan and europe.....it always works for other bands historically instead of dropping them
Who was as big as Bon Jovi? VVI never went multiplatinum, and Poison did. But I'm pretty sure being on a bigger label helped Poison become more successful.

At the time, Chrysalis invested more money into marketing Pat Benatar than VVI. That's probably the reason VVI didn't get as much radio airplay, and not enough videos for the Mtv age.

read that again....slowly.

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:10 pm

KissMyAss wrote:Who was as big as Bon Jovi? VVI never went multiplatinum, and Poison did. But I'm pretty sure being on a bigger label helped Poison become more successful.

At the time, Chrysalis invested more money into marketing Pat Benatar than VVI. That's probably the reason VVI didn't get as much radio airplay, and not enough videos for the Mtv age.

So Poison wasn't big enough because their debut did 3 X platinum or more an Open Up and Say Ah was ...what 5X platinum.

And while talking about Poison, who did Chrysalis get from Elektra (Poison's label) as their new President?

Funny why are all the Invasion guys on record talking about how theres so much more marketing going into ASG than there was for the Invasion. And that they were happy that they now had someone who understood metal etc.

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:47 pm

AceAlive1 wrote:
KissMyAss wrote:
AceAlive1 wrote:ok let me answer this the best way i know how.........the original poster said poison outsold VVI....true. but then again poison was never that big. not on a bon jovi level anyway. BUT, they were basically VVI on a better label.

im thinking invasion's album has gone gold by now.....been a few years anyway. recertified sales will probably show it.

remember this, record companies make their money by limiting costs.......so that means they might not pay to certify their own albums as gold or platinum, put our videos, do promo work, etc etc...

the smart thing to do would be send them to japan and europe.....it always works for other bands historically instead of dropping them
Who was as big as Bon Jovi? VVI never went multiplatinum, and Poison did. But I'm pretty sure being on a bigger label helped Poison become more successful.

At the time, Chrysalis invested more money into marketing Pat Benatar than VVI. That's probably the reason VVI didn't get as much radio airplay, and not enough videos for the Mtv age.

read that again....slowly.

I can read! Degrading people is becoming increasingly popular around here.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:29 pm

Women aren't people.

BEFORE YOU JUMP ON MY SHIT, REALIZE THAT I AM JUST JOKING !!!!

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:08 pm

Although I love the first Poison album for what it was (an updated NY Dolls vibe) it's a shame that that band, Slaughter, etc. could go on to sell millions and a band like VVI is relegated to obscurity. Vinnie had every opportunity for the big time though so who knows what could've happened?

1031 · Post by **1031** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:32 pm

Brainsaw wrote:
1031 wrote:Ok there seems to be a lot of discussion on how great Invasion sales were. while released numbers are around 400,000 for VV1 these more than likely shipped numbers and never made it gold. All systems go was even worse with 250,000 sold / or more than likely shipped..

Way to NO SOURCE that at all.

And obviously someone who has never worked in the record industry if you think its all about making money and not saving face at times etc.

I already went into detail about the stupidity of labels. When they go under--I've had friends that couldn't even buy the masters from the label. They are dropped. The label just sits on it instead of getting their costs back in it.

Funny, ASG sold immediately. You can't deny that. You could, but you'd be lying in the face of actual evidence.

You have no idea who I am or what I have done, I may have worked as touring musician or in statistical entertainment and broadcasting research or a record executive even possibly build and repair guitars I could have worked in a studio or just flip burgers or even possibly all the above, some or absolutely none of the above. I could be sitting in my moms basement with a bag of Cheetos a orange pecker a slightly sticky keyboard all the result of day dreaming of a three way between you me and the poon meister ....

You just never know.. But your brazen assumption as to ......... I'm sorry just nodded off ' who are you again and what were we talking about?

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:39 pm

1031 wrote: I could be sitting in my moms basement with a bag of Cheetos a orange pecker a slightly sticky keyboard all the result of day dreaming of a three way between you me and the poon meister ....

I'm in . I'll bring the family size Cheetos bag.

Brainsaw · Post by **Brainsaw** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:34 pm

1031 wrote:
You have no idea who I am or what I have done, I may have worked as touring musician or in statistical entertainment and broadcasting research or a record executive even possibly build and repair guitars I could have worked in a studio or just flip burgers or even possibly all the above, some or absolutely none of the above. I could be sitting in my moms basement with a bag of Cheetos a orange pecker a slightly sticky keyboard all the result of day dreaming of a three way between you me and the poon meister ....
?

I guess the Cheetos thing because you haven't shown any knowledge of the industry.

Now where's that WASP gold album for "Inside The Electric Circus"? Funny, the RIAA doesn't list that.

Is it one of those Phantom claims like KISS makes about alot of their albums?? They are great at that.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:48 pm

The only knowledge you know of the industry is how to spin bad figures into good. Politician style.

Possio · Post by **Possio** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:09 pm

What I can add to this discussion is that quite a few returns of these 2 albums, mostly the first VVI,
ended up here in Europe as "cut outs".. not that it makes the album any less important to me,
but it is not a "commercial" album by most peoples standard.. It is way too over the top, which is the way I like it.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:17 pm

Exactly

Brainsaw keeps same hours as suzie q / vinnie.
Suzie did you but the silver / purple guitar?

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:41 pm

Brainsaw. Why dont you tell vv to pull his finger out of his ass... put his computer in the trash and do some work!! Spending his time on computer talking about what should have been is not working.

Why can he not function and make music like he was designed to do.
How can vv live spending 99% of his life glued to computer arguing old fights over and over and re creating history.

He needs to pull his finger out and make music with no bs getting in the way.
He is at war with himself and imprisoned by his own past from his own making. Nothing good can come of it unless he pulls his finger out and blows the people away.
He sits judging who is a real vv fan or not... fuck that vinnie... make an album for yourself and put it out.
You could still blow the rock workd away if you want...
You will never win living in the past talking about what may have been.

Possio · Post by **Possio** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:41 pm

what is interesting is that we had a Swedish Pressing of the VVI album here first, done by whoever handled Chrysalis back then?, the actual album-cover was actually nicer in Swe version, stronger colors and more glossy.
Then a few years later I started seeing the US version as cut-outs at some bagain places, in droves I hate to say...Had to pick one up! US pressing version SOUND slightly better thou.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:47 pm

Yeah it was in bargain bins all over europe in usa edition. The 7 inch love kills uk version was a total faliure. No even close to top 100 and no radio play in uk at all.

I do think vvi woukd have had larger audience figures in europe than the states. Certainly a lit more than vinnie had in hollywood. I guess 3000 in london would be more accuarate.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:52 pm

Too bad vv disnt toue europe. He could have replaced band and still done well.

I wonder why he didnt try to get that together. Goran would gave been easy to get. He could have had a european based band even. Maybe micky dee from don dokken band too.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:54 pm

I also think vv would have been a perfect match for whitesnake. Imagine coverdale singing ashes to ashes , that time of year and back on the streets.

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:07 pm

Dino,

Possio · Post by **Possio** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:16 pm

Yeah, V should have relocated to Sweden, would probably been a decent career move.
But tough with family still in the states etc...I speak from experience...

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:20 pm

Oh what the hell.. heres a cookie for the troll.

Also what is amazing is no hits in any international market for such a great record.
The same problems in every market. No hit single or radio in japan or europe. Japan was huge for anerican metal back then. Its such a tragedy that asg wasnt the talk of everyone in rock world.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:26 pm

Possio in the short time in Sweden he made lots of enemies. . Not sure how good a move it would have been.

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:29 pm

: one hand clapping.gif (287.34 KiB) Viewed 6588 times

poserboy71 wrote:Women aren't people.

BEFORE YOU JUMP ON MY SHIT, REALIZE THAT I AM JUST JOKING !!!!

So funny, I nearly fell over laughing

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:34 pm

doublev2 wrote:Oh what the hell.. heres a cookie for the troll.

Also what is amazing is no hits in any international market for such a great record.
The same problems in every market. No hit single or radio in japan or europe. Japan was huge for anerican metal back then. Its such a tragedy that asg wasnt the talk of everyone in rock world.

I was talking about BS, not Possio.

Possio · Post by **Possio** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:39 pm

Well, I dunno, I obviously dont know V personally...I know some people here in Stockholm who took care of Vinnie at some time here back in the day. (mid 1990s)
Funnily, He was cool with them then, no "horror stories" like the stuff one might have heard in internet world.
But who knows ? Im just saying, Maybe V could have cut some stuff here with musicians who were from the same mold. Just speculation anyway..

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:40 pm

Yeah I knew that. Bs not possio.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:41 pm

Yeah would have been a good idea possio.

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:44 pm

Possio wrote:Yeah, V should have relocated to Sweden, would probably been a decent career move.
But tough with family still in the states etc...I speak from experience...

Metal is also popular in Japan. The only music that's popular in the US is rap and Lady Gaga...disgusting.

Possio · Post by **Possio** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:57 pm

Yup, what Im saying is, from a "let get rich now" type career move, perhaps Stockholm, Sweden is not going to change much, But, there are lotsa good musicians around who really still are into Metal/Progressive Hard rock who would be willing to help out (cheap) or for free, to get some of Vs music on tape(so to speak)... but one aspect is who´s gonna pay for it getting released? what media? what market? nobody pays for music here anyway..everybody downloads shit for free (illegally), that just the way the cookie crumbles these days...
Live gigs, yes, that different! but somebody/or something´s gonna pay the bills when you relocate, what that would be in this particular case, I have no idea...Just speculation on a pointless topic I guess...HAHA! with too much free time on my part at work today...slooooowwwwww daaayyy.....

Post by **Genebaby** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:10 pm

Cool to see you around so much these days Possio!!

I was not really a fan but I remember Poison was HUGE in 88, they exploded like Vinnie would have wished the VVI did, along with the rest of us.

My uncle went to the US that year and reported back that Poison was everywhere. I did like Fallen Angel.

Possio · Post by **Possio** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:42 pm

Yes G-Baby, I dunno what happened to me either ha!..? must be the new brand freshly ground coffee I had this morning...potent stuff. haha.. Poison were really big. you are correct. Like that ballad "every dog has its day" (sic) and stuff.. As a fan of VVI back in 86-87 too bad they never made it over to Europe..

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:11 pm

KissMyAss wrote:
Metal is also popular in Japan. The only music that's popular in the US is rap and Lady Gaga...disgusting.

Please don't use rap and music in the same sentance!

No one in my school other than my closest friends had any idea who Vinnie was! Sadly. Did my best to convert but I was the only shred head there!

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:55 pm

shramiac wrote:
KissMyAss wrote:
Metal is also popular in Japan. The only music that's popular in the US is rap and Lady Gaga...disgusting.
Please don't use rap and music in the same sentance!

No one in my school other than my closest friends had any idea who Vinnie was! Sadly. Did my best to convert but I was the only shred head there!

My mistake. Rap is crap.

Same here. I still try to expose KISS fans to the Vinmeister, often to no triumph. Alas!

1031 · Post by **1031** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:33 am

Brainsaw wrote:
1031 wrote:
You have no idea who I am or what I have done, I may have worked as touring musician or in statistical entertainment and broadcasting research or a record executive even possibly build and repair guitars I could have worked in a studio or just flip burgers or even possibly all the above, some or absolutely none of the above. I could be sitting in my moms basement with a bag of Cheetos a orange pecker a slightly sticky keyboard all the result of day dreaming of a three way between you me and the poon meister ....
?
I guess the Cheetos thing because you haven't shown any knowledge of the industry.

Now where's that WASP gold album for "Inside The Electric Circus"? Funny, the RIAA doesn't list that.

Is it one of those Phantom claims like KISS makes about alot of their albums?? They are great at that.

The RIAA does not include a remastered or re release as the same album, but as a insider you knew that. I think its odd you would use RIAA as a single source to justify sales/ ship numbers when it clearly kills your Vinnie vincent theory of sales numbers.... You can verify W.A.S.P. numbers though Billboard.biz as a insider I am sure you have access.

5minLuvKills · Post by **5minLuvKills** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:08 pm

GREAT first post in the thread 1031

BS, Poison's label wasn't Elektra it was Enigma then Capitol...YES I'm being extremely petty but I couldn't resist

and at least I'll admit when I'm being petty

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:42 am

5minLuvKills wrote:GREAT first post in the thread 1031

BS, Poison's label wasn't Elektra it was Enigma then Capitol...YES I'm being extremely petty but I couldn't resist and at least I'll admit when I'm being petty

That's okay. You ARE RIGHT. Poison was on Enigma.

I don't think Chrysalis was doing poorly the 80s either. Pat Benatar and Billy Idol were on Chrysalis. I remember seeing the label. The butterfly.

I think Chrysalis and Enigma were successful indie labels in the 80s.

Portillo · Post by **Portillo** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:42 am

Not every band is instantly successful. Vinnie could have built up the Invasion album by album and eventually become successful.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:00 am

Gfh was great but on a commercial level I am not sure it would have sold well.
Sales are not everything. Making a great record most likely means low sales because its the commercial shit that sells.. look at slaughter. Problem with slaughter only two good songs on first album and the girl on cover took album sales over the edge. Up all night .. good shit. The rest shit shit.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:48 pm

They were all great albums but Guitars From Hell is my favorite of what I have heard so far