the elder
Re: the elder
yeah the only soft tunes on it are just a boy, odyssey and a world without heroes (and if you count "fanfare".) under the rose and only you are slow but have a heavy riff. all the rest of it is pretty heavy stuff... i mean mr. blackwell is one of gene's grungiest songs. i'll always love the elder, I listen to it quite a bit. if ezrin would've brought carr's drums up in the mix more it would've been alot better sounding... the drums have no punch whatsoever.
i remember reading years ago that carr was gonna originally sing under the rose and there's a version somewhere... wonder if that's in the kiss vaults?
[youtube][/youtube]
attempting the oath and I with tommy and eric...
[youtube][/youtube]
i remember reading years ago that carr was gonna originally sing under the rose and there's a version somewhere... wonder if that's in the kiss vaults?
[youtube][/youtube]
attempting the oath and I with tommy and eric...
[youtube][/youtube]
Re: the elder
The Elder was an epic fail in so many ways:
- The story itself is not "KISS". KISS has written dozens of concept songs, so you'd think they'd come up with a cool concept for a concept album. Instead they do a poorly defined sci-fi story.
- It's an unfinished story because it was the first 1/3 of a trilogy
- All the guest-writers and guest-players gives it a in-cohesive feel overall
- The final mix is pretty soft...as PW put it, the drums are way too low in the mix for a metal album
But even with all of that, there is some cool music and a some cool songs on The Elder.
- The story itself is not "KISS". KISS has written dozens of concept songs, so you'd think they'd come up with a cool concept for a concept album. Instead they do a poorly defined sci-fi story.
- It's an unfinished story because it was the first 1/3 of a trilogy
- All the guest-writers and guest-players gives it a in-cohesive feel overall
- The final mix is pretty soft...as PW put it, the drums are way too low in the mix for a metal album
But even with all of that, there is some cool music and a some cool songs on The Elder.
Open your window and see the real world
To know what you've been missing
Come out of the shadows
Insecurity lies
In a heart afraid to listen
To know what you've been missing
Come out of the shadows
Insecurity lies
In a heart afraid to listen
Re: the elder
Don't knock on that door Paul!
It's a good album but didn't get finished, thought the biggest problem with part one is they ruined the song order. Akin to swapping around chapters in a book, crazy!
Even with the right order it was the wrong album for Kiss in 81.
It's a good album but didn't get finished, thought the biggest problem with part one is they ruined the song order. Akin to swapping around chapters in a book, crazy!
Even with the right order it was the wrong album for Kiss in 81.
Commander in chief - VVF Army
Re: the elder
I can not understand a word of most rock music anyway so the story is lost on me
Bye Bye
Re: the elder
Genebaby wrote:Even with the right order it was the wrong album for Kiss in 81.
By 1981 KISS could've released Creatures or an album like the four extra rock-oriented songs on Killers and it wouldn't have sold... people were burnt out them. The Elder definitely didn't help but the only thing KISS could've done at that point to get some attention was do what they did two years later... remove the makeup.
Re: the elder
It may have been different in the US but I think people were ready to try the next album after Unmasked and once they heard The Elder they wrote them off completely.
A proper heavy album would have done wonders but their image was so tainted that taking off the makeup did save th em from totally sinking.
They did some cool promo work trying to sell The Elder, mainstream America seemed to care, but with no sales and then no tour it was clear nobody really cared. Thank god they played live on Fridays during that period.
A proper heavy album would have done wonders but their image was so tainted that taking off the makeup did save th em from totally sinking.
They did some cool promo work trying to sell The Elder, mainstream America seemed to care, but with no sales and then no tour it was clear nobody really cared. Thank god they played live on Fridays during that period.
Commander in chief - VVF Army
Re: the elder
but i have never seen so an impressive turnaround. most bands take a decade to return after being so big.
Bye Bye
Re: the elder
and yes VV helped. But like i said Creatures only has 3 vv written tunes so he can not take all the credit for that. LIU I think certainly VV can take at least half the credit if not more.
Bye Bye
Re: the elder
Speaking for myself, as a 9 year old obsessed with Peter Criss I stopped listening to KISS when they introduced Eric Carr. My favorite wasn't in the band so I wasn't going to listen.
A few years later a friend of mine loaned me Animalize and I loved the drumming and Heaven's On Fire. I didn't actually buy an album until Asylum...Tears Are Falling convinced me that KISS was worth it again.
That's about the time I remember VVI coming out and a friend playing it for me. I went to the mall that day and bought VVI. That weekend I went back to the mall to buy Lick It Up. In my small town the only info I could get on this Vinnie Vincent guy was going to the mall and buying rock magazines. I bought every one I could find over the next few years, but there just wasn't much on Vinnie. It created a kind of mystery.
Anyway, long story short...from my perspective and talking to other people that liked KISS, the ever changing band members made them kind of a joke. They couldn't get into a band that had different members every album.
A few years later a friend of mine loaned me Animalize and I loved the drumming and Heaven's On Fire. I didn't actually buy an album until Asylum...Tears Are Falling convinced me that KISS was worth it again.
That's about the time I remember VVI coming out and a friend playing it for me. I went to the mall that day and bought VVI. That weekend I went back to the mall to buy Lick It Up. In my small town the only info I could get on this Vinnie Vincent guy was going to the mall and buying rock magazines. I bought every one I could find over the next few years, but there just wasn't much on Vinnie. It created a kind of mystery.
Anyway, long story short...from my perspective and talking to other people that liked KISS, the ever changing band members made them kind of a joke. They couldn't get into a band that had different members every album.
Open your window and see the real world
To know what you've been missing
Come out of the shadows
Insecurity lies
In a heart afraid to listen
To know what you've been missing
Come out of the shadows
Insecurity lies
In a heart afraid to listen
-
thundergod74
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 6:11 am
Re: the elder
It turned out to be a HUGE commercial failure for the band,but there are still some people now who actually love the the album even for its flaws and lameness as a non-KISS sounding LP. I actaully like it for its attempt to become a good concept LP that could've used some better producing. A side note that video about The Elder stating that its not Paul's hand on the cover according to Bill Aucoin is false, in KISS Behind The Mask, page 341 according to album desinger Dennis Woloch it IS Paul's hand on the cover. Said Paul was behind the whole idea for the LP's cover concept.