Trunk Nation Tuesday - Creatures Fest

[VVArchives]

Just listening to the episode. I don't think Eddie knows much KISStory at all.

He's going off on Vinnie wearing his TM'd makeup. He asks why Gene and Paul didn't stop him from doing that. Eddie doesn't even know that Vinnie trademarked his makeup, the Fox makeup. Also the "Cross" makeup.

He's saying how all the former members should be playing with KISS at the final show. All of them have proved they could play and it would work.

Then when discussing CF, he has to rip Vinnie. He thinks Vinnie was the least of those 4 at Creatures Fest. He's acting like Peter and Ace did so much. He even laughably claims Bruce Saved Kiss.

I don't know if Eddie was drunk this time or what. But he thinks Bruce adding stability saved KISS. Even though in the past, he has admitted the truth, Vinnie saved KISS.

Bruce is a good guy. And he did very well at Creatures Fest. But the truth is he doesnt' have much of anything to show during his time in KISS. It was telling the whole album he performed at CF was the one he had the least imput on- Revenge.

He wasn't doing "Bruce KISS" albums. He did another Vinnie/Kiss album. And he calls "Revenge" his favorite KISS album.


God Bless our Vinnie. The guy is an Enigma. It wasn't that many months ago he was playing all those Invasion songs at SIR. I would have been happy with that again. I didn't care if it was a Rio recreation. I'd be happy with an acoustic set and the history of the songs.

[Genebaby]

Vinnie at Creatures Fest was the absolute worst part of the event, that is a fact and is going down in KISStory now. Sadly, it wasn't a decent performance and comes last because "somebody" has to be last, it was below par and was a big fail, unlike anything else that happened.

How can you ignore that tank sized elephant in the room? Vinnie was lame and is back to being a laughing stock, with more solid proof than ever before. How could he do that to himself.

Let Eddie say what he wants, Vinnie couldn't save himself, how could he save KISS? KISS kept going all through the 80's, 90's etc. KISS is still going now. What is Vinnie doing? When Vinnie SHreds the SH stands for shit. His "performance" after months of planning and rehearsal was shit, there is no two ways about it. He should have stayed home and let us wonder, but now we know, and now we are sure everyone at the SIR parties was in on the lie. Vinnie cannot perform songs and he cannot play with a band, and he cannot play that well at all anymore. The cat is out of the bag.

I just cannot understand why he lied about what he was going to do for the fans?

[aeroflott]

He thinks Vinnie was the least of those 4 at Creatures Fest. He's acting like Peter and Ace did so much.

Bruce is a good guy. And he did very well at Creatures Fest. But the truth is he doesnt' have much of anything to show during his time in KISS. It was telling the whole album he performed at CF was the one he had the least imput on- Revenge.

God Bless our Vinnie. The guy is an Enigma. It wasn't that many months ago he was playing all those Invasion songs at SIR. I would have been happy with that again. I didn't care if it was a Rio recreation. I'd be happy with an acoustic set and the history of the songs.

Vinnie was by far the poorest in terms of what he delivered at Creatures Fest. I fail to see how this isn't obvious unless you are in complete denial. As for Ace and Peter, I just don't understand your statement - they were part of the foundation of the band.

As for Bruce not having "much of anything to show during his time in Kiss". You're kidding right? Whether he does or not, he's doing a far better job than Vinnie is of earning a living off his legacy, and sharing experiences with fans.

Did Vinnie really play Invasion songs at SIR? Really? On the basis of every video I've seen of him playing since Atlanta, I see nothing that suggests he has any desire to play a complete song as a lead guitarist in the true sense of the word. At Kiss Kruise and Creatures Fest it should be obvious that he was being carried by those around him and he appeared happy to play a background role.

[metatron]

Look at the bright side. They ticket price for the whole even was decent. Where there were epic failures, it was made up by some epic success.
Let be honest, there is nothing more to say on the subject. At least know we can dictate our impressions based on evidence.

[Luxor]

What's Eddie's favorite KISS non-makeup album? Isn't it "Asylum"? That says all ya need to know about him.

I can't stand listening to that guy. I don't know how he ever got to host a radio show.

He's the worst host on the Hair Nation channel IMO

[Genebaby]

You can't hate a guy cause he likes Asylum. He was young and around the band at that time, I know that would have great memories for me if I had experienced it like he did. I like Asylum too, and Crazy Nights and even HITS, but LIU is the best. Better than Creatures, which is ok, but not as great as LIU.

[VVArchives]

He thinks Vinnie was the least of those 4 at Creatures Fest. He's acting like Peter and Ace did so much.

Bruce is a good guy. And he did very well at Creatures Fest. But the truth is he doesnt' have much of anything to show during his time in KISS. It was telling the whole album he performed at CF was the one he had the least imput on- Revenge.

God Bless our Vinnie. The guy is an Enigma. It wasn't that many months ago he was playing all those Invasion songs at SIR. I would have been happy with that again. I didn't care if it was a Rio recreation. I'd be happy with an acoustic set and the history of the songs.

Vinnie was by far the poorest in terms of what he delivered at Creatures Fest. I fail to see how this isn't obvious unless you are in complete denial. As for Ace and Peter, I just don't understand your statement - they were part of the foundation of the band.

As for Bruce not having "much of anything to show during his time in Kiss". You're kidding right? Whether he does or not, he's doing a far better job than Vinnie is of earning a living off his legacy, and sharing experiences with fans.

Did Vinnie really play Invasion songs at SIR? Really? On the basis of every video I've seen of him playing since Atlanta, I see nothing that suggests he has any desire to play a complete song as a lead guitarist in the true sense of the word. At Kiss Kruise and Creatures Fest it should be obvious that he was being carried by those around him and he appeared happy to play a background role.

Ace and Peter were part of the foundation. They were also part of the destruction.

No, I'm not kidding about Bruce. He can't go play a concert of songs he co-wrote because nobody would want to hear them. Look at his catalogue. Where were KISS Klassics from Bruce? How many songs of his made it as a video Asylum-Revenge? None that I recall. Any singles? None that I recall. Concerts. Other than "No, No, No" I can't think of any that got much play. And I could have done without "No, No, No" but I also could have done without "Bang Bang You". That CN tour had the worst songs from a KISS album. They would have been better off ignoring most of that album.


He does the KISS Kruises for almost no pay. Bob told what they were getting paid to do those. It was really peanuts. So he doesn't live that well off that.

He's done maybe 1 show of his own stuff and that was recently in Vegas. Didn't sell out a small club. And the tickets were peanuts and that was around NYE. The city was packed.

and then he had what happened to him at Creatures Fest. A large portion of fans didn't bother going Sunday night.

Of course Eddie didn't hear about that.

.

Yes, Vinnie did play songs Invasion and KISS songs in their entirety. No band. But he was playing and he's done an hour & a half of that stuff.


Why the change for CF? I have no idea. Whether its anxiety with large crowds or what. I don't know. Alot of people would have been far better off attending a Nashville SIR show if that's what they wanted to see. He's delivered.


I could easily understand why Neil thought, this is easy. Neil has seen him do this. I have no doubt Neil heard him rehearsing songs.

It is kinda a shame that no video has leaked out from SIR just so it could be shoved in the doubters faces.

Vinnie is an enigma, although they sucked as a label. One never knows what you will get with him.

I think he's a good person who has been mentally F'**ked by KISS and others. And it wouldn't surprise me if he has Asperger's. I think that would explain alot of things.

[Genebaby]

Yes, Vinnie did play songs Invasion and KISS songs in their entirety. No band. But he was playing and he's done an hour & a half of that stuff.

Why the change for CF? I have no idea. Whether its anxiety with large crowds or what. I don't know. Alot of people would have been far better off attending a Nashville SIR show if that's what they wanted to see. He's delivered.

Are you serious? The people who attended CF to see Vinnie do all the songs, WITH a ful band, should have gone to an SIR show to see that? An SIR show that was a small event with a curated guest list?

Nobody beleives he has ever played actual songs, by himself, but even if so, that pales into significance compared to what was supposed to happen at CF, so they are not comparable at all.

He doesn't have anxiety about crowds, he was telling us it was going to be "the show of shows" just days before, smiling away, giving the fans more expectations about the show they were already expecting.

If he had any anxiety there would never have been a CF to begin with!

[VVArchives]

Yes, Vinnie did play songs Invasion and KISS songs in their entirety. No band. But he was playing and he's done an hour & a half of that stuff.

Why the change for CF? I have no idea. Whether its anxiety with large crowds or what. I don't know. Alot of people would have been far better off attending a Nashville SIR show if that's what they wanted to see. He's delivered.

Are you serious? The people who attended CF to see Vinnie do all the songs, WITH a ful band, should have gone to an SIR show to see that? An SIR show that was a small event with a curated guest list?

Nobody beleives he has ever played actual songs, by himself, but even if so, that pales into significance compared to what was supposed to happen at CF, so they are not comparable at all.

He doesn't have anxiety about crowds, he was telling us it was going to be "the show of shows" just days before, smiling away, giving the fans more expectations about the show they were already expecting.

If he had any anxiety there would never have been a CF to begin with!

Maybe 1 or 2 Vinnie SIR shows were limited to the FB groups.

Nobody believes? You speak for everyone?

Now you claim to know if he has anxiety or not?

and yes, people should have gone to Nashville SIR. They snoozed they loosed

Neil certainly thought it would be an easy performance because VInnie kicked so much ass at SIR

[Genebaby]

My eyes are open, anxious people don't put themselves out there, Vinnie would still be hiding in a house somewhere if he was too anxious to play for a few people, not advertising it loudly over the internet.

Nobody believes, that is the word on the street, I speak for the masses, yes.

Why should they have had to go to an SIR show when they already PAID to see it at CF?

[gp16]

There is NO WAY Vinnie delivered much at the SIR shows. His inner circle is protecting him when they say otherwise. When you have a great product, you do not hide it; you put it out there.

This is not the VV who - as Bobby Rock wrote in his excellent book - was obsessed with quality. His credibility is gone forever. He will need other star-power for any real audience to pay to see him again. He will need a guarantor we trust.

Maybe he will write a nice acoustic song or two, but the electric guitar Vinnie is done.

This fiasco has killed his brand.

[Genebaby]

There is NO WAY Vinnie delivered much at the SIR shows. His inner circle is protecting him when they say otherwise. When you have a great product, you do not hide it; you put it out there.

This is not the VV who - as Bobby Rock wrote in his excellent book - was obsessed with quality. His credibility is gone forever. He will need other star-power for any real audience to pay to see him again. He will need a guarantor we trust.

Maybe he will write a nice acoustic song or two, but the electric guitar Vinnie is done.

This fiasco has killed his brand.

Those are some good and valid points. That wasn't a quality show and you don't hide your greatest asset, you show it off. Vinnie showed us what he's got these days. The inability to play in any kind of constructive way, and sadly lied to get the chance to do that.

[strangeways]

There is NO WAY Vinnie delivered much at the SIR shows. His inner circle is protecting him when they say otherwise. When you have a great product, you do not hide it; you put it out there.

This is not the VV who - as Bobby Rock wrote in his excellent book - was obsessed with quality. His credibility is gone forever. He will need other star-power for any real audience to pay to see him again. He will need a guarantor we trust.

Maybe he will write a nice acoustic song or two, but the electric guitar Vinnie is done.

This fiasco has killed his brand.

Those are some good and valid points. That wasn't a quality show and you don't hide your greatest asset, you show it off. Vinnie showed us what he's got these days. The inability to play in any kind of constructive way, and sadly lied to get the chance to do that.

Indeed.
I'm fine with Eddie Trunk.

[strangeways]

And then there is this....

https://www.kissfaq.com/forum18/viewtopic.php?t=148698

[VVArchives]

There is NO WAY Vinnie delivered much at the SIR shows. His inner circle is protecting him when they say otherwise. When you have a great product, you do not hide it; you put it out there.

This is not the VV who - as Bobby Rock wrote in his excellent book - was obsessed with quality. His credibility is gone forever. He will need other star-power for any real audience to pay to see him again. He will need a guarantor we trust.

Maybe he will write a nice acoustic song or two, but the electric guitar Vinnie is done.

This fiasco has killed his brand.

Those are some good and valid points. That wasn't a quality show and you don't hide your greatest asset, you show it off. Vinnie showed us what he's got these days. The inability to play in any kind of constructive way, and sadly lied to get the chance to do that.

No he didn't. Total made up on your part. Just because you didn't witness what he is capable of doesn't mean its not true. Just because you want to make up he's forcing people what to say and only approved people can go and other nonsense, doesn't make it reality. It's fiction on your part. But if you want to believe fiction. Go ahead.

[strangeways]

Is there a link to this particular Eddie broadcast?

[pullitt]

I've no problem believing the reports from SIR, but those are Vinnie-controlled environments so he feels safe about doing whatever. Now an expo organized and profited from by other people is something he'll throw a monkeywrench at every chance he gets, because in his mind he's the star and they owe him much more than he's offered and he owes them less than a bare minimum in return.

[VVArchives]

Eddie's episode went off off the Sirus/XM site about 4 days after the broadcast

[DQIC]

Eddie Trunk is his own biggest fan. I don't know how he gets interviews anymore because he'll kiss butt when interviewing someone and then turn around and trash them the next week. Therefore, I don't give him a lot of credit, but I have to agree with the jist of what he said in this case. I don't think Vinnie delivered much to CF, which is a shame. Who knows what he is capable of anymore?

I think that, besides Tommy, Bruce probably gave KISS the most stability and kept them on the road. That's saying SOMETHING at least. He played a part and seemed happy with it. He's a decent player, but won't turn any heads. He's the Toyota Camry of guitarists.

As for Vinnie, I think he could have stopped after the Pre-cruise gig with Four by Fate. He played decent rhythm and folks gave him a pass. It's always better to leave folks wanting more (unless you are talking about things you've sold them) and he could have saved his reputation.

Always better to under promise and over deliver instead of letting people down.

I do feel bad for him to some extent, because I think part of the reason he has difficulty playing is arthritis. Look at his hands. They aren't right, especially his picking hand. He always had a weird picking style, which may have contributed to it.

[VVArchives]

I think its safe to say KISS would have been far better off with a different guitarist for each album & tour than Bruce. Bruce was unable to write anything of substance and he was pretty much just standing there on stage. So he didn't bring anything to the recordings of the live show.

He would have been so easily replaced with up and coming guys who might have been able to provide some kick in the ass to KISS songwriting which Animalize-Hot In The Shade is pretty abysmal.

It was clear from Bob Kulick during "KIllers" Gene and Paul needed direction and someone to provide it to them.

WIth that recent Asylum Pro Shot release, you just shake your head how far KISS declined in a few short years.

Eddie thinks Bruce saved KISS? But then Eddie likes a shit album like Asylum. So, his perspective is way off anyways.

[aeroflott]

We can debate all day about what Bruce actually contributed to Kiss compared to Vinnie.

And yet, in the popularity stakes, Bruce wins hands down. I don't think I've ever seen a post that puts Bruce down. He was and is a reliable, nice guy who loves his music and contribution to Kiss.

Fans pretty much universally respect him. Can the same be said about VV?

[VVArchives]

We can debate all day about what Bruce actually contributed to Kiss compared to Vinnie.

And yet, in the popularity stakes, Bruce wins hands down. I don't think I've ever seen a post that puts Bruce down. He was and is a reliable, nice guy who loves his music and contribution to Kiss.

Fans pretty much universally respect him. Can the same be said about VV?

Not much to debate. He didn't contribute shit. You look at all the worthless songs. Garbage. You look at the albums.

Popularity stakes where? Some ridiculous message boards?

Union bombed. Didn't sell anything. And then Bruce flew home after the ran out of money on tour while the rest had to take the bus. He used his KISS FF miles. The fans sure weren't buying that at all.

CreaturesFest - 1/2 the attendees didn't bother to go see his show. Those are hardcore KISS fans and they could have cared less about seeing Bruce. That speaks the loudest.

Spare me the BS about the fans and Vinnie. Gene and Paul lied about him for 40 years about. Most are too stupid to go look at the facts and find out Gene and Paul were lying. Some people are dumb enough to believe Vinnie was fired from KISS instead of him walking away from the band.

Imagine how different things would have been for VInnie had they not slandered him all these years.

Then people go but Appice warned them about Vinnie. Yet, it turns out Carmine was upset because Vinnie wanted all the money from the songs he wrote in The Rockers and Carmine wanted part of that money because he can't write songs.

and Vinnie was certainly stupid to go silent while Mark and Dana were slandering him instead of telling the truth about what went down.




Kiss fans want to give Bruce a "participation trophy". He was so bad, KISS of all people had no other choice but to have Vinnie back for Revenge.

and Bruce is so bad, he wanted Gene and Paul to lie for him about Revenge. That's pretty damn low that Bruce wanted to take credit for another's solo. Not to mention Bruce's lies about Vinnie which were disgusting. Nice guy? Really?!


Again, if KISS fans cared about him..... his solo Vegas show would have sold out. It didn't. Busiest time in Vegas and he probably managed $12K at the door. Then of course, people didn't even bother to show for his show in Nashville. Some may have been worried he'd bring his wife up on stage to sing. She certainly is a "wannabe" and makes him put her out there.

[DQIC]

Wow. I wasn't exactly saying Bruce was great. In fact, I called him the Toyota Camry of guitarists. He's a known commodity. I'm purely talking about his live work. He did passable work on the live shows and showed up sans ego and drama.

I thought his performance on the taped Animalize concert was pretty damn good. In fact, I sometimes wonder if they played to tracks, but I can't find anything in the video that stands out obviously, so I assume it was live.

[aeroflott]

Not much to debate. He didn't contribute shit. You look at all the worthless songs. Garbage. You look at the albums.

Wow.

Ok dude.

[VVArchives]

Wow. I wasn't exactly saying Bruce was great. In fact, I called him the Toyota Camry of guitarists.

You should have used Honda Civic instead. I think thats the model of Honda he and his wife had to share.

Can you imagine being in such a "mega band" and even after 6 years in the band, you still had to share a car with your wife because of the pay?

Poor Eric was still driving that crappy Porsche 924 they gave him back in 1980.

And then Shannon thought Christina and Bruce were millionaires. I think Christina got a good laugh out of that one.

But some act like KISS was such a great gig.

[Genebaby]

It is hard to imagine how that works. I'm not sure if Eric kept that Porsche out of sentimental reasons, though it seems it wasn't running too good.

How do you be in a band like KISS and not be able to afford what so many others can working regular type jobs?

Maybe not millionaires, but you gotta be living comfortably you would think.

[VVArchives]

It is hard to imagine how that works. I'm not sure if Eric kept that Porsche out of sentimental reasons, though it seems it wasn't running too good.

How do you be in a band like KISS and not be able to afford what so many others can working regular type jobs?

Maybe not millionaires, but you gotta be living comfortably you would think.

And yet some think Vinnie should have signed a horrible contract, given up his publishing to Gene and Paul to live on money where Bruce and Christine couldn't even afford a 2nd car. They didn't even have kids to support. Neither did Eric. Imagine how bad they would have been if they did have several kids each to support.

[Genebaby]

Well, how did things go for Vinnie? In the 90's in America he had only a clapped out car and no money, yet when taken to Europe on someone else's dime only Mercedes were good enough for him to travel in.

It didn't really work out did it, and it could be argued he would be in a better position today? I don't think Bruce ever had to survive on Panda Express.

[aeroflott]

And yet some think Vinnie should have signed a horrible contract, given up his publishing to Gene and Paul to live on money where Bruce and Christine couldn't even afford a 2nd car. They didn't even have kids to support. Neither did Eric. Imagine how bad they would have been if they did have several kids each to support.

So he hit the self destruct button and got himself thrown out of the band.

And here we are nearly 40 years later, trying to sell signed CDs for $120.

How did that work out?

[Genebaby]

Yes, Tracii Guns may have played one show from the toilet but Vinnie's career has been there for over 30 years and continues to do so, which saddens us all as there is so much potential.

That potential has been wasted away after his "escape" from the evil clutches of KISS.

Things would be different if we were talking about a world where Vinnie was a top recording artist, playing show after grand show (the show of shows?) to crazed fans all over the world. But no. We are in a world where Vinnie is the musical equivalent to an ant on the sidewalk. An ant that tells lies to any fans it might still have, even when it really shouldn't have the last time.

Why???????

[pullitt]

Who's this Christina?

[Genebaby]

Christina is Bruce's first wife. Married 89, divorced 96.

7p2b4ulacm1jca14.jpg (29.77 KiB) Viewed 8540 times

[pullitt]

Thanks. First time I read about her.

[Genebaby]

Yeah, I'm not sure what happened. She was around during the Crazy Nights era if I remember correctly, then they got married and all the KISS guys were there. Seems they broke up just as the KISS reunion was getting into swing.

[DQIC]

It is hard to imagine how that works. I'm not sure if Eric kept that Porsche out of sentimental reasons, though it seems it wasn't running too good.

How do you be in a band like KISS and not be able to afford what so many others can working regular type jobs?

Maybe not millionaires, but you gotta be living comfortably you would think.

And yet some think Vinnie should have signed a horrible contract, given up his publishing to Gene and Paul to live on money where Bruce and Christine couldn't even afford a 2nd car. They didn't even have kids to support. Neither did Eric. Imagine how bad they would have been if they did have several kids each to support.

I never heard of any counter offer or negotiations. I do think I heard Vinnie say it was "take it or leave it," but is that true?

Something like, "I'll sign for a year and renegotiate, but I'm not giving up publishing" would have been something to consider. That would have gotten him insured if, indeed, that was an issue.

Part of the problem, I assume, is that everything goes straight through Lawyers with no face to face communication. With any of my dealing with these kinds of contracts, there is always at least a little face to face communication and then the lawyers write the final draft.

[VVArchives]

Thanks. First time I read about her.

She's the one who needs to write a book. She knows all the dirt and she knows how Bruce really felt. Bruce will never say anything bad about Gene and Paul while they are still alive. He's a wimp

[VVArchives]

It is hard to imagine how that works. I'm not sure if Eric kept that Porsche out of sentimental reasons, though it seems it wasn't running too good.

How do you be in a band like KISS and not be able to afford what so many others can working regular type jobs?

Maybe not millionaires, but you gotta be living comfortably you would think.

And yet some think Vinnie should have signed a horrible contract, given up his publishing to Gene and Paul to live on money where Bruce and Christine couldn't even afford a 2nd car. They didn't even have kids to support. Neither did Eric. Imagine how bad they would have been if they did have several kids each to support.

I never heard of any counter offer or negotiations. I do think I heard Vinnie say it was "take it or leave it," but is that true?

Something like, "I'll sign for a year and renegotiate, but I'm not giving up publishing" would have been something to consider. That would have gotten him insured if, indeed, that was an issue.

Part of the problem, I assume, is that everything goes straight through Lawyers with no face to face communication. With any of my dealing with these kinds of contracts, there is always at least a little face to face communication and then the lawyers write the final draft.

I wouldn't have agreed to cut my salary in 1/2
I wouldn't have agreed they would "own" my solo career
I wouldn't agree they would own all my recordings before and after KISS (for a period of years)
and all the other nonsense.


The only thing I would tell them is to stick the amendment to the original contract and shove it up their ass. I would say, I will work under the terms of the original contract but that's it.


Just remember even Meth Head Mark St. John regretted signing the deal and he couldn't write songs at all.